Brexit

white_isle_calling said:
There's gotta be more than two surely.
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Probably.....just sprang to mind...

Like I said it's your opinion doesn't make it right with others....and vice versa.

You could name some vocal remain "celebrities" and others would have a problem with them......

For those who voted remain and are still distraught by the referendum result. You really need to ask yourself why the vote went the way it did....

How comes the Remain camp. With such a righteous following fail to spot these lies and deceit and counter it with factual, credible points that a lot of people could relate to?

Not one leave voter I've spoken to voted on the back of seeing a bus with NHS on it and we'll save 350 mill a week.

It went a lot deeper than that. And for some was in fact a tough decision to make ....
 
spinksy123 said:
The thing is. Who's an idiot and who isn't is just an opinion. If you don't like the current PM and their party here in the UK. Although it may seem a while away. You can vote for the alternative.

What's the alternative to the EU and who's running it, if you don't like the job they're doing? Who run against Donald Tusk? When did we get the vote?

The process for the hierarchy of the EU needs change and people made more accountable.
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https://napa.i.lithium.com/t5/image...97C6A27D62673A0/image-size/large?v=1.0&px=999 The EU is more accountable than Westminster it could be argued!
In the UK simply vote for our constituency MP, by FPTP so a majority of votes could become of no value, and the winning party elects a PM - but the Higher House (Lords) has little or no public input and you can get there simply by being born!
That aside, the UK has many opt-outs and vetos.
Think the issue with the EU is that few understand it, and that's mainly the EU's fault for not getting across what it can (and can't) do for the general public.
 
spinksy123 said:
The owners of JCB and Dyson if memory serves me correct.

I'm sure both published a public statement as to why they're voting leave...

I think Dyson commented on manufacturing going down the pan here in the UK because a lot was moving to the EU for cheaper Labour and all on grants provided by the EU...

That's off memory and I could be wrong. But something like that I'm sure.....
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Don't Dyson make their stuff in places such as Malaysia after formally being based in Wiltshire?
 
2H76 said:
https://napa.i.lithium.com/t5/image...97C6A27D62673A0/image-size/large?v=1.0&px=999 The EU is more accountable than Westminster it could be argued!
In the UK simply vote for our constituency MP, by FPTP so a majority of votes could become of no value, and the winning party elects a PM - but the Higher House (Lords) has little or no public input and you can get there simply by being born!
That aside, the UK has many opt-outs and vetos.
Think the issue with the EU is that few understand it, and that's mainly the EU's fault for not getting across what it can (and can't) do for the general public.
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Doesn't really argue they're more accountable to me.....

But you're bang on......The EU isn't understood properly by a lot of people. But then it's the fault of the EU when it came to the crunch to change that and get a positive message across.......
 
2H76 said:
Don't Dyson make their stuff in places such as Malaysia after formally being based in Wiltshire?
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Basically Mr Dyson said the design and research is UK based (high skilled work), the fabrication is 3rd world etc as cheaper and lower skilled work. Makes sense I suppose. Not great for large numbers of peeps in UK, but then automation is probably a bigger threat to employment than brexit. White collar jobs are also at high risk from that :eek:
 
white_isle_calling said:
Genuine question - I'm really interested to know - can any leaver point me in the direction of a really upstanding, credible, likeable, knowledgeable public figure - an expert, business leader, politician or even a "celebrity" who still supports Brexit, has a good argument for it and talks sense.
Please, I'd like to know. Curious more than anything. Happy to do some thorough research, so all I need is names. If you'd like to provide links, then great.
The rules are they must be morally-upstanding, have a higher than average IQ and just generally have to have a bit of nouse about them. Thank you.
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Current owner of Wetherspoons. Quite a few respectable politicians on both side of the political divide - Michael Gove perhaps the best example. Widely seen as a very smart bloke who took great care not to be associated with rhabid populism during the leave campaign.

Be careful not to mistake consensus for truth. It has been easy for London centric, Guardian reading types to characterise the leave vote simply as a reactionary vote against immigration, or an expression of protest; but I think the reasons are a lot more complex than that and to argue in that vein is actually quite patronising to the many millions of people who voted leave in full knowledge of what it would entail.

For me the level of bigotry shown after the referendum - by both sides - was quite repulsive. The race stuff has been widely covered and was absolutely disgusting, but the way that working class people, people from the regions outside London, the elderly and the ‘uneducated’ were cast as simple bigots, for exercising their democratic right as they saw fit in the aftermath of the vote, was wrong and heavily contributed to the deep divisions we have today.
 
Crawleytown said:
Current owner of Wetherspoons. Quite a few respectable politicians on both side of the political divide - Michael Gove perhaps the best example. Widely seen as a very smart bloke who took great care not to be associated with rhabid populism during the leave campaign.

Be careful not to mistake consensus for truth. It has been easy for London centric, Guardian reading types to characterise the leave vote simply as a reactionary vote against immigration, or an expression of protest; but I think the reasons are a lot more complex than that and to argue in that vein is actually quite patronising to the many millions of people who voted leave in full knowledge of what it would entail.

For me the level of bigotry shown after the referendum - by both sides - was quite repulsive. The race stuff has been widely covered and was absolutely disgusting, but the way that working class people, people from the regions outside London, the elderly and the ‘uneducated’ were cast as simple bigots, for exercising their democratic right as they saw fit in the aftermath of the vote, was wrong and heavily contributed to the deep divisions we have today.
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Some valid points in there....
 
Very interesting debate for a non British.
And for a French, with Le Pen at 30% at every election since 20 years.
If today in France we would do a referendum to leave or not Europe, I am sure the leave will win.
 
spinksy123 said:
Not sure about the Wetherspoons though. We have one in town and we avoid it Like the plague.......:D
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...to avoid the plague?
I actually like some places without music and TV, but Weatherspoons just seem like an open, soulless cavern (but with free wifi), full of people finding time between bets. There you are, how's that for a generalisation?!!
 
jimmiz said:
Very interesting debate for a non British.
And for a French, with Le Pen at 30% at every election since 20 years.
If today in France we would do a referendum to leave or not Europe, I am sure the leave will win.
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makes you wonder, should the uk make a success of the brexit, willcitizens/lobbyists of other net-contributing nations seek an exit of their own?
 
johndiamond said:
makes you wonder, should the uk make a success of the brexit, willcitizens/lobbyists of other net-contributing nations seek an exit of their own?
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Sorry mate, I am not sure to understand clearly your question :spank:
(I need some English lessons since years, I know:oops:)
 
johndiamond said:
makes you wonder, should the uk make a success of the brexit, willcitizens/lobbyists of other net-contributing nations seek an exit of their own?
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Exactly my point. If the UK gets a good deal. Other countries will follow suit. Puts the EU in a difficult position. They need a deal just as much. But at the same time need to save face.......
 
Meanwhile in Birmingham a poisonous far right extremist sect huddling in a conference centre built with 50m European money. Ukip. The irony.
 
jimmiz said:
Sorry mate, I am not sure to understand clearly your question :spank:
(I need some English lessons since years, I know:oops:)
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no need to apologise!

what i meant is...if uk brexit is a success would any of the other richer member states such as france look at the uk and try to leave also?
 
2H76 said:
...to avoid the plague?
I actually like some places without music and TV, but Weatherspoons just seem like an open, soulless cavern (but with free wifi), full of people finding time between bets. There you are, how's that for a generalisation?!!
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That’s just plain Gamblism
I might do a separate Wetherspoons thread
 
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