Brexit

Also - again without knowing your career - I guess you speak from some experience. I also work on building sites, and also often with Polish or European workers. Most of their English is exceptional. A handful have only grasped the basics. But I can honestly say I've never encountered any who don't speak any at all. They are also, without doubt, the hardest working and least complaining people I have ever met, bar none (miserable bastards a lot of time, but with a wicked sense of humour and who can't do enough for you - I feel like a dosser in their presence).
Give me them any day of the week over the apprentices who are getting smashed every weekend and rolling in hungover or still stoned on a Monday morning (hypocrite? maybe...) or the Aussies (bloody useless, mate - no wonder they want our tradesmen to emigrate) Yes, I'm generalising. There's shits, skivers and charlatans of all nationalities, colours, faiths in all industries - not just construction.
The truth is, you - me - we have far more in common with Aleksander Kolkov then we do with these Eton educated, coke-addled, rent boy-hiring MPs and Lords who really dictate the shit going down in your town and mine.
 
Nostalgic said:
I am angry at the labour party for letting it go to shit , i am angry at how being in the EU with this freedom of movement has made it a negative instead of a positive. And is the reason why it needs be got rid of. Hence why I voted Leave.
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This is a genuine question. Why lay the blame with Labour? Far from perfect i know but the Tories have been in charge again for the past 8 years and imo all they have done is create the greatest class divide in my life time.

What depresses me most is how easily influenced (or brainwashed) the general public are by media, The Mail, The Sun etc. I take on board your frustrations and I know it's impossible for me to fully understand them unless i live your life but what you've listed only looks good on paper, the reality is very different
 
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Also, for the sake of this, other Brexit threads and debates in general and my sanity, can we put to bed the notion that the leave/remain split equates to right/left. It doesn't. That is making it far too simplistic. There is obviously a lot of ring wing-leave overlap if your reasons for leaving is fuelled on the basis of "immigration" or "Muslims". But that aside, it just doesn't ring true (especially with that leave sector that genuinely aren't racist, and used it as a protest vote).
Furthermore, there are plenty of "Tory Rebels" who know Brexit is a shit idea. And the labour party are staring an open goal in the face. Say they oppose Brexit, and swing the polls. But Corbyn - the liberal that right wingers detest so much - is an open Eurosceptic, and a closet leaver.
 
Lazy generalisations of leavers as neanderthal racists in this thread demonstrate the continued failure of remainers to really consider the varied reasons that people really voted leave.

I voted for Brexit so that this country can be more open to the rest of the world, not less. Instead of being tied to 17% of the worlds economy (and a declining 17% at that) we remove the disincentives the EU place on us trading with the other 83%. Instead of being saturated with hardworking, but often unskilled, European workers we open our labour markets to prise the best brains from the rest of the world - Africa, India, China etc. This will not only make us more economically competitive in the long term but will also drive up wages for working class people (as has already started https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....migration-falls-cipd-report-a8489366.html?amp) which have been in the dirt for decades due to the idiocy of the free labour market policy in a block of countries with stark economic inequalities.

I’m not stupid enough to think that it won’t be a bit rough for the next few years but I really am convinced that, in the long-term, Brexit will make us a far more competitive, global facing economic force. Quite the opposite of the ‘little island mentality.’
 
Thing that surprised me how people think brexit solves the "Johnny foreigners" problem.

A) borders we have full control on, we let more peeps in than from EU, this true in 2016 too. Ok supposed to be "highly skilled", but sure we all been to hospital and not been able to understand a doc or nurse.

B) without "them" our food gonna rot in the fields (also remember unemployment is at ~50 year low).

It will probs solve the problem by "them" all leaving and us up a creek without a paddle.

The problems are with integration of peeps in a location and strain on infrastructure and services, which is the government CBA doing what it should to invest in improvements.

It's a classic divide and conquer by ruling classes, give you something to hate/blame but not their fault.

Interesting thing to think about: UK 6th largest economy, pretty much full employment. So why running deficit, large debt and austerity (which is going to get worse)?? Why tax revenues still lack lustre. Is it the 99% not paying their tax?? Or is it low pay/zero hour contracts? Or is it the real wealth been spirited away by companies and rich individuals? Remember 6th richest economy.

2nd hint, democracies are not run for the masses (although they do benefit), it's for those with power and wealth, basically still like a feudal system but with lipstick. Yes I know over simplifying and been overly dramatic, but have a think about it & why things never really change even with all the rhetoric. Maybe they want out of EU so can remove rights hard won when in the EU? Who really knows.

Anyhow going to stock up on spam and bounty bars :oops:

Ps: hull has a big Chinese population, never been a problem and integrated well. Polish too that I've come across, guess depends on town.

Pps: if we have to up wages to get pickers in fields, + volatile £, +tariffs on incoming goods, +extra paper work/customs, inflation might be a problem. Glad I've got fixed mortgage for 4 yrs after brexit.
 
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I'm working class and have never voted Labour. Or UKIP..

I simply don't buy this mindset that one party regardless of leader is the one for you...

Each election I look at the candidate and what each party had to say...then make my choice.

David Miliband I liked. However the Labour party were too stupid to vote him in......
 
spinksy123 said:
I'm working class and have never voted Labour. Or UKIP..

I simply don't buy this mindset that one party regardless of leader is the one for you...

Each election I look at the candidate and what each party had to say...then make my choice.

David Miliband I liked. However the Labour party were too stupid to vote him in......
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He speaks sense. BURN HIM!:D
 
spinksy123 said:
Nothing like a good political debate........
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True, it's nothing like a good political debate :D:p


For those who remember Humphrey on I'm Sorry I haven't Got A Clue; after another awful gag Humph chips in "Ah, nothing like a good comedy or music show". "Don't know why you've all bothered tuning in...".
 
Crawleytown said:
Lazy generalisations of leavers as neanderthal racists in this thread demonstrate the continued failure of remainers to really consider the varied reasons that people really voted leave.’
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In fact, if you read my last two posts from last, I address this.
If you read his first few, you see he brings up immigrants.
The leap isn't hard to make.
No, not all people who voted leave are racists... But how did all the racist vote?
Sometimes you need to look around, and see whose boat you're in and ask yourself: why?

In fact, let's leave the racists out it. Look around at all of the politicians in your boat... hardly filled with intellect, charm and honesty, is it? Some of nastiest idiots ever bred.

This doesn't just apply to politics. Any opinion you have, look around and who shares that view and judge accordingly. It's a nice little social barometer.

There are a great many reasons - a few sensible - for wanting to leave. I get that.
But don't be surprised people are continuously calling you a bigot if your rhetoric is always involving immigration, what language people speak and other bile that racist people say.

If lots of people are telling you that you're saying xenophobic things, then it's time to question whether you might be!
 
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The thing is. Who's an idiot and who isn't is just an opinion. If you don't like the current PM and their party here in the UK. Although it may seem a while away. You can vote for the alternative.

What's the alternative to the EU and who's running it, if you don't like the job they're doing? Who run against Donald Tusk? When did we get the vote?

The process for the hierarchy of the EU needs change and people made more accountable.

People here in the UK have short memories. It wasn't so long ago when David Cameron and George Osborne came to power with the coalition and the EU rather unjust increased the UK financial contributions to a level that had the whole country in uproar.

George Osborne done what he could to reduce it. The rest of the country said he'd lost the battle and the EU were still taking the piss massively....we the citizens of the UK had no say whatsoever.....

Had that been put to a referendum at the time. The NO vote would have been a lot wider than 52 to 48%........
 
Looking forward to reading who gonna defend Boris, Rees-Mogg and Farage. This should be interesting...
 
white_isle_calling said:
Looking forward to reading who gonna defend Boris, Rees-Mogg and Farage. This should be interesting...
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None of them float my boat.....in fact I'm struggling to think of someone who really inspires me in a political sense at the moment.

Trump and Clinton.........May and Corbyn.......
What a terrible choice we've had here and across the pond as they say.

Despite his criticism I didn't mind Nick Clegg. And was happy with the direction we were going during a very difficult period with Osbourne and Cameron. Like I said David Miliband would have really got Labour back up there I believe.....all more of the centre ground I suppose.....
 
Genuine question - I'm really interested to know - can any leaver point me in the direction of a really upstanding, credible, likeable, knowledgeable public figure - an expert, business leader, politician or even a "celebrity" who still supports Brexit, has a good argument for it and talks sense.
Please, I'd like to know. Curious more than anything. Happy to do some thorough research, so all I need is names. If you'd like to provide links, then great.
The rules are they must be morally-upstanding, have a higher than average IQ and just generally have to have a bit of nouse about them. Thank you.
 
The owners of JCB and Dyson if memory serves me correct.

I'm sure both published a public statement as to why they're voting leave...

I think Dyson commented on manufacturing going down the pan here in the UK because a lot was moving to the EU for cheaper Labour and all on grants provided by the EU...

That's off memory and I could be wrong. But something like that I'm sure.....
 
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