G20 Summit

Robder said:
This has nothing to do with my salary.

It has everything to do with the circulation of money in the economy. If the pretend monopoly money (which is all virtual because it's debt) doesn't circulate then the system collapses.

The government have seen to it that it won't circulate because it has thrown more money at the very people that got us in this mess. If I threw more money (my salaries) at them the same thing would happen, it would reach a bank and stay there.
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the moneys gone into underwriting the "toxic" assets those banks now own - which were mainly made of repackaged debts or debts of debts of sub prime mortagages from the states.

now that went belly up, everythings unravelling the panic has started.
 
Robder said:
This has nothing to do with my salary.

It has everything to do with the circulation of money in the economy. If the pretend monopoly money (which is all virtual because it's debt) doesn't circulate then the system collapses.

The government have seen to it that it won't circulate because it has thrown more money at the very people that got us in this mess. If I threw more money (my salaries) at them the same thing would happen, it would reach a bank and stay there.
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The debt is very real.

The reason the government had to inject capital into banks is because they needed to ensure they didn't go pop. This has been a safety measure to ensure the average man in street knows his money is safe.

Now they have been shored up, the banks are under pressure to turn the taps on lend to businesses and individuals. This is a gradual process and the banks are being hesitant because they don't want to start lending to unsafe proposals, of which there are many around. As too much of this and they'll be back to square one.

As for the bonuses, most of them are contractual, we had this discussion on here before, so regardless of how tasteless they may be they are legally binding.

Quantative easing is a dramatic step which will have a positive effect, once it is given time to work. It will reduce the toxic assets of banks, which are the major stumbling block to the credit taps being turned on. But it doesn't happen overnight.

QE will mean increased taxes in future, but the rationale is that we will be in a better place so the incraeses in taxes are an affordable price to pay. However, that depends on your political viewpoint.

The problem is not what happening now, rather what didn't happen before with a hugely unregulated financial system.


But a "Jobs, justice and climate change" protest march? J

Justice? well that's highly subjective.

Jobs? what more jobs please or less jobs by closing industries like the Automotive industry who have a big carboon footprint?

Climate change? OO let's stick in the Polar bears just to get more to come to the street party we're having.

Why not be constructive, you've got a vote us ethat or go and see your MP instead of closing business down for a week when they least need it.
 
MARKB said:
As for the bonuses, most of them are contractual, we had this discussion on here before, so regardless of how tasteless they may be they are legally binding.

.
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A very good friend of mine has just left his job at RBS because having contracted to pay him a bonus of £x in March this year to get him to leave his old job (which meant leaving his bonus there), they wanted to pay him a third a year over three years starting next year.
 
Buckley said:
A very good friend of mine has just left his job at RBS because having contracted to pay him a bonus of £x in March this year to get him to leave his old job (which meant leaving his bonus there), they wanted to pay him a third a year over three years starting next year.
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A friend of mine at RBS here had the same thing (he was ABN-Amro before the merger). Deferred payments plus some of it in stock (!!!)
 
MARKB said:
The debt is very real.

The reason the government had to inject capital into banks is because they needed to ensure they didn't go pop. This has been a safety measure to ensure the average man in street knows his money is safe.

Now they have been shored up, the banks are under pressure to turn the taps on lend to businesses and individuals. This is a gradual process and the banks are being hesitant because they don't want to start lending to unsafe proposals, of which there are many around. As too much of this and they'll be back to square one.

As for the bonuses, most of them are contractual, we had this discussion on here before, so regardless of how tasteless they may be they are legally binding.

Quantative easing is a dramatic step which will have a positive effect, once it is given time to work. It will reduce the toxic assets of banks, which are the major stumbling block to the credit taps being turned on. But it doesn't happen overnight.

QE will mean increased taxes in future, but the rationale is that we will be in a better place so the incraeses in taxes are an affordable price to pay. However, that depends on your political viewpoint.

The problem is not what happening now, rather what didn't happen before with a hugely unregulated financial system.


But a "Jobs, justice and climate change" protest march? J

Justice? well that's highly subjective.

Jobs? what more jobs please or less jobs by closing industries like the Automotive industry who have a big carboon footprint?

Climate change? OO let's stick in the Polar bears just to get more to come to the street party we're having.

Why not be constructive, you've got a vote us ethat or go and see your MP instead of closing business down for a week when they least need it.
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Yes - taking on board everything you say but lets adjourn this conversation till three years time when we can see if the above text book 'QE is going to work' view actually goes to plan.

I'm no economist but I think it'll go t!ts (see earlier post on deflation/hyper inflation).
 
Well i agree Robder, as i said in the post above there will be a price to pay in future.

QE will work as it is direct intervention : Reducing current liabilities, making funds available. Which is it's purpose. But whether it alone will be enough is unknown.

You talk about reviewing it in 3 years and seeing where we are, well fair enough. But we don't have the benefit of hindsight, decisions have to be made now and options are limited and the frame of reference for this situation doesn't exist.

I'm sure if there are better alternatives we would all like to know what they are.
 
QE would work if money was given to the people...it's not.

The banks won't do this - there's too much trust in the very people who got us in this mess in the first place.

It won't work.

It's not the right solution.

Prove me wrong and I'll eat my words. :p:lol:
 
Robder said:
QE would work if money was given to the people...it's not.

The banks won't do this - there's too much trust in the very people who got us in this mess in the first place.

It won't work.

It's not the right solution.

Prove me wrong and I'll eat my words. :p:lol:
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QE is not a free cash handout it's an economic stimulus. To stimulate confidence, investment, growth and job creation.

Handing out cash to the general public? You really think that is the answer? :lol:

I'm not interested in proving you wrong mate, I'm just explaining you how it is, or at least my understanding of it.
 
I know what you're saying and I'm not poo pooing it - please ignore me when I'm on the wind up. ;)

...but I don't think it'll stimulate the economy for the simple reason that we trust the banks - the people behind the biggest financial f*** up in history to get this money moving.

They won't.

On paper it may well be a great idea (even if we are trading in debt).
 
Robder said:
I know what you're saying and I'm not poo pooing it - please ignore me when I'm on the wind up. ;)

...but I don't think it'll stimulate the economy for the simple reason that we trust the banks - the people behind the biggest financial f*** up in history to get this money moving.

They won't.

On paper it may well be a great idea (even if we are trading in debt).
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Fair enough. ;)
 
Robder said:
On paper it may well be a great idea (even if we are trading in debt).
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thats whats got us in this mess.

banks buying other banks debts and selling them to investors as viable investments and giving em fancy names like credit linked notes and having them rated AAA.

bastards.
 
Olly said:
I think the real myth is that capitalism offers opportunites for all. I think that it offers opportunity to the elite with the experience, the connections and the rich parents but some kid from a sink estate does not have the same opportunity as a private school kid and never will under the current system. Capitalism favours people who want to play the system but what about the weak, the dispossessed, the unmotivated - destined to forever work on checkouts and cleaning the crap off the circle line. But of course, we have the lottery and the illusion we can be rich and famous for the sake of it, the whole obsession with bling - desperate pathetic superficial affectations of wealth by people too stupid to realise they are mugs in the capitalist game. And of course lets not forget that cheap clobber in Matalan is made by some orphan in Bangladesh for 1p an hour.

The UK is gradually becoming a soulless, sterile place - no-go town centres at night, powerful brewers in charge of people's leisure time, big hypermarkets determining people's lives - it's totally, utterly immoral - people's individual identities are just being bludgeoned to death. Anywhere with character or charm bulldozed by the relentless march of King Tesco or Wetherspoon. The old boozers closing down, the old cinemas, the old terrace culture at football, all the old eccentrics on telly sent off to the knacker's yard and replaced by bland identikit Nicky Campbell clones, the pathetic english tourists in Barcelona often entire families clad in matching football tops when the Italian tourists have elan and style. The UK is fuked - seems to me as a country, we've lost our identity and so the brands have moved in to try and fill the vaccuum. And that is due to our 30 year obsession with consumerism. The rest of Europe is not like that - people in Berlin do not HAVE to OWN a property - people can rent and live fine. It's just us - Maggie's children still 'living the dream'... which is why our bankrupt economy is going to the wall now.

What is the alternative? I don't know - I'm not naive enough to believe you can topple the system - the whole house of cards would fall down and I don't fancy anarchy. Also councils/govt are so corrupt - they will always be at the mercy of big business. But there are countries in Europe who have more humane forms of capitalism - where people are just generally a lot more chilled and that's really where we ought to be.
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What you said...8)8)8)
 
Well judging by ones very bumpy ride thus far I would have to use that constant provision as evidence and conclude a resounding yes. Still don't stop the occasional twitchy eye in moments of the storm sir:lol:
 
Just (well at 6-6.30am) driven through Central London in a a suit and tie, in a relatively nice car. Seems I'm a bit early for the protestors? The marches start at eleven, I note.

Frankly, I'd be more convinced if they put a full day in. Their efforts to change the world are going to last a quarter or so of my working day and involve very little beyond causing general disorder.

Likely to succeed you reckon?
 
russ said:
I am off to Liverpool Street now and will post updates from the, ahem, front line kidz
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Aren't your units mobile Russ? I would have had it out of there for the day or two. Surely the majority of your normal walk-up business is 'working from home'?
 
Buckley said:
Aren't your units mobile Russ? I would have had it out of there for the day or two. Surely the majority of your normal walk-up business is 'working from home'?
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not mobile unfortunately, also, i have contract which insists on us being open today. I shall be on hand to deal with any 'issues' which arise (ie, close up and get the blazes outa there)

The police are closing the upper level of the station today and have had all A boards etc removed.

I suspect that any problems will occur away from the station. The 'plan' is for protesters to meet at 11am today at assorted locations inc liv st. I doubt that things will kick off (if they even do) later on.

TBH, I think that there has been huge amounts of scaremongering going on (this forum no exception)

As long as the riot-police don't overreact as usual, i think we will be fine
 
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