what some of the locals think...

[LuckyBlueSuit]

still very much agree with McR. in my view, the vast majority of the locals are absolutely aware the island needs the tourism and the wealth it brings. i really don‘t think we‘re getting tourismophobic, but it‘s a very simple truth that lately, the massification has led to scenes that start to be unhealthy for the island and are thus undesirable to the locals that a) want the island to stay beautiful and liveable and b) want ibiza to be a quality tourism destination in generations to come. and to achieve that, certain things must change

tourismophobic is a good word! Fortunately it’s not something I experience when I’m there. However sound bites on this thread demonstrate an undercurrent that is getting louder. We a know the island isn’t what it was like in the 80s and it’s certainly more developed now than it was when I first visited in the mid 90s. We know there is a political desire to grow the middle class market. And we know that numerous politicians think the island is over capacity with the current tourist cohort and they want to change this cohort to something more sanitised and that more families are desired.

As resident, what do you think are the certain things that need to change?

I worry for the local economy if the government achieve its goal. Edm won’t be here in five years. And Ibiza will never be the next Monaco regardless of how much the matutes et al get a political helping hand. But then I wonder what the politicians and local populace really want. Because if it’s a cleaned up, chilled out, family focussed island with hedonism restricted to the wealthy they could do that at a stroke. But they choose not to. It’s apparent they have no clear vision about what they want the island to be in the future. there is a real danger that the dissenting residents will end up with an economy that looks like the rest of Spain if it drives out what it has become popular for amongst the populists.

 

[ibiza77]

You'll always find me in the kitchen at parties? For the cold drinks?

 

[stivi]

tourismophobic is a good word! Fortunately it’s not something I experience when I’m there. However sound bites on this thread demonstrate an undercurrent that is getting louder. We a know the island isn’t what it was like in the 80s and it’s certainly more developed now than it was when I first visited in the mid 90s. We know there is a political desire to grow the middle class market. And we know that numerous politicians think the island is over capacity with the current tourist cohort and they want to change this cohort to something more sanitised and that more families are desired.

As resident, what do you think are the certain things that need to change?

I worry for the local economy if the government achieve its goal. Edm won’t be here in five years. And Ibiza will never be the next Monaco regardless of how much the matutes et al get a political helping hand. But then I wonder what the politicians and local populace really want. Because if it’s a cleaned up, chilled out, family focussed island with hedonism restricted to the wealthy they could do that at a stroke. But they choose not to. It’s apparent they have no clear vision about what they want the island to be in the future. there is a real danger that the dissenting residents will end up with an economy that looks like the rest of Spain if it drives out what it has become popular for amongst the populists.

a few things already start changing - and that´s great, but a lot of stuff still needs to change.

the way I see it - and I´m not alone with my opinion, more and more island locals, be it ibicencos or expats like me - ibiza simply has reached boiling point with the actual number of tourists that come here. it came creeping from about 2010 onwards, but reached its climax in 2016. it´s only july and august, but it has negative effects all year on the points I list below. as I said, a few of them are already a bit better again (or will get better)

housing market. starting to get better again now (read on for that), but it had become a joke. I know people that now pay double the rent of what they used to pay 5 years ago. with airbnb, bookingdotcom and other portals becoming fashion, just about everyone started to rent out their flats to holidyamakers...leaving the locals without housing. this is one of the examples where the july/august example is obvious: a lot of the flats stay empty for 8-10 months because people can make the same money, mostly even more, in the 2-4 months they rent it out to tourists. the social and medial pressure on this subject became so big so that finally the government changed the rules. they start controlling illegal rentals and fine them and a lot of people have finally come to their senses and stop renting out illegally to holidaymakers. this trend will continue hopefully as more people that still do it illegally get fined. it´s only starting to improve a little now, finally people can at least find flats again (as landlords put them back out on the long term market instead of renting out illegally to holidaymakers). right now they are still FAR too expensive so everyone is hoping more landlords get fined for their wrondoings...this will then result in more flats becoming available and eventually prices will hopefully drop a little.

island saturation (visible on roads, beaches,...). again something that´s 100% obvious in peak season, but has consequences for the rest of the year. as for the beaches, in summer, lots of the beaches are just too full, period. full in a way that a) you can´t find any parking spots and b) you can´t lay your towel anywhere on the beach. that also has problem c) lots of beaches have too much space occupied by sunbeds...another thing that might get a little better now, because, again the social pressure has worked - lots of people have complained (very rightly so) and the san josé government had to react and has now reduced the amount of sunbeds for certain beaches. I mean look at cala bassa...10 years ago it was still a very nice beach which of course got busy in peak season, but you always found a spot there (to both park AND to be on the beach) while now it´s basically turned into one oversized beach club. that again is because the government has been too permissive and basically lets the entrepreneurs do what they want.

as for traffic, the santa eularia - ibiza road has been in a permanent traffic jam for the last two summers...again this is something new. ibiza until 2010 ish didn´t know the word traffic jam (unless for some of the old cocoon afters at s´estanyol, but that´s an entirely different story). parking spaces are hard to find in most places etc. and the thing is - traffic is also higher in winter now as people fly in and drive around for a week searching for places to live...

so as you see, all of the above is connected really. the solution is easy - alone by limiting the amount of tourists a little (I really am not talking about a big decrease), you could immediately get rid of a lot of issues for both tourists as well as locals. I understand tourists are only here for a week or so, but I really think their holiday experience would be better if there were no traffic jams, no overly packed beaches, restaurants where you could get a table even without booking days in advance etc.

anyone that´s ever been over to menorca will confirm they did it much much better. they have been having a cap on tourism for ages (I think since the 70s or 80s?) and it simply works. the island also gets full in peak season, but it´s bearable. plus, they´ve organized it well - if you get to a beach and the parking is full you simply cannot go to the beach that day (unless someone leaves). that might be negative for you in that very moment, but if you are on this very beach in the same moment you are super happy that they don´t allow any more people to park because the beach is just perfectly busy the way it is.

again, I am 100% convinced the island´s economy wouldn´t suffer if we had a little fewer tourists. and then we also wouldn´t need such a ridiculous amount of rental cars, speedboats etc. it´s just a bit too much right now really. that said, everyone that´s been on this forum for a while knows exactly how much I love ibiza. that won´t change - but as you can see, I simply care. I also think that the government should already now force all the rental car companies to ONLY rent out electric cars. ibiza is such a small island, it would be an absolutely perfect place to promote that. ibiza could literally turn into tesla island. and it would have a global impact since ibiza always is in the media. I also think lots of the businesses (hotels, restaurants, even the clubs) could and should do much more to take care about the environment. I still see so much plastic around here it´s frightening.

I know this all might sound a little negative right now and it´s surely not as dramatic as I paint it. but let´s just say that if I ran the island, I´d change quite a few things haha

 

[ibiza77]

OH yes,just my words,but some "locals" only think about the money.they want to forbid
everything like Space daytime parties,which we older people like,you can bring friends who have kids,now It's only places like Destino or Pikes.
I lived in Ibiza b4 and have friends who own
places and want to forbid us to have fun without all there rules and hands in our pocket. I miss KU and the old Es Paradiso.

 

[craig72]

let´s just say that if I ran the island, I´d change quite a few things haha

 

[stivi]

OH yes,just my words,but the "locals" only think about the money.they want to forbid
everything like Space daytime parties,which we older people like,you can bring friends who have kids,now It's only places like Destino or Pikes.
I lived in Ibiza b4 and have friends who own
places and want to forbid us to have fun without all there rules and hands in our pocket. I miss KU and the old Es Paradiso.

sorry but how can you throw all locals into one and the same bin. there are greedy people and lots that aren‘t

 

[ibiza77]

Sorry Stivi I used a wrong word,know it's not all.

 

[Namaste]

...I also think that the government should already now force all the rental car companies to ONLY rent out electric cars. ibiza is such a small island, it would be an absolutely perfect place to promote that. ibiza could literally turn into tesla island. and it would have a global impact since ibiza always is in the media...

Good idea, but battery powered electrical vehicles are a dead-end road.

 

[LuckyBlueSuit]

a few things already start changing - and that´s great, but a lot of stuff still needs to change.

the way I see it - and I´m not alone with my opinion, more and more island locals, be it ibicencos or expats like me - ibiza simply has reached boiling point with the actual number of tourists that come here. it came creeping from about 2010 onwards, but reached its climax in 2016. it´s only july and august, but it has negative effects all year on the points I list below. as I said, a few of them are already a bit better again (or will get better)

housing market. starting to get better again now (read on for that), but it had become a joke. I know people that now pay double the rent of what they used to pay 5 years ago. with airbnb, bookingdotcom and other portals becoming fashion, just about everyone started to rent out their flats to holidyamakers...leaving the locals without housing. this is one of the examples where the july/august example is obvious: a lot of the flats stay empty for 8-10 months because people can make the same money, mostly even more, in the 2-4 months they rent it out to tourists. the social and medial pressure on this subject became so big so that finally the government changed the rules. they start controlling illegal rentals and fine them and a lot of people have finally come to their senses and stop renting out illegally to holidaymakers. this trend will continue hopefully as more people that still do it illegally get fined. it´s only starting to improve a little now, finally people can at least find flats again (as landlords put them back out on the long term market instead of renting out illegally to holidaymakers). right now they are still FAR too expensive so everyone is hoping more landlords get fined for their wrondoings...this will then result in more flats becoming available and eventually prices will hopefully drop a little.

island saturation (visible on roads, beaches,...). again something that´s 100% obvious in peak season, but has consequences for the rest of the year. as for the beaches, in summer, lots of the beaches are just too full, period. full in a way that a) you can´t find any parking spots and b) you can´t lay your towel anywhere on the beach. that also has problem c) lots of beaches have too much space occupied by sunbeds...another thing that might get a little better now, because, again the social pressure has worked - lots of people have complained (very rightly so) and the san josé government had to react and has now reduced the amount of sunbeds for certain beaches. I mean look at cala bassa...10 years ago it was still a very nice beach which of course got busy in peak season, but you always found a spot there (to both park AND to be on the beach) while now it´s basically turned into one oversized beach club. that again is because the government has been too permissive and basically lets the entrepreneurs do what they want.

as for traffic, the santa eularia - ibiza road has been in a permanent traffic jam for the last two summers...again this is something new. ibiza until 2010 ish didn´t know the word traffic jam (unless for some of the old cocoon afters at s´estanyol, but that´s an entirely different story). parking spaces are hard to find in most places etc. and the thing is - traffic is also higher in winter now as people fly in and drive around for a week searching for places to live...

so as you see, all of the above is connected really. the solution is easy - alone by limiting the amount of tourists a little (I really am not talking about a big decrease), you could immediately get rid of a lot of issues for both tourists as well as locals. I understand tourists are only here for a week or so, but I really think their holiday experience would be better if there were no traffic jams, no overly packed beaches, restaurants where you could get a table even without booking days in advance etc.

anyone that´s ever been over to menorca will confirm they did it much much better. they have been having a cap on tourism for ages (I think since the 70s or 80s?) and it simply works. the island also gets full in peak season, but it´s bearable. plus, they´ve organized it well - if you get to a beach and the parking is full you simply cannot go to the beach that day (unless someone leaves). that might be negative for you in that very moment, but if you are on this very beach in the same moment you are super happy that they don´t allow any more people to park because the beach is just perfectly busy the way it is.

again, I am 100% convinced the island´s economy wouldn´t suffer if we had a little fewer tourists. and then we also wouldn´t need such a ridiculous amount of rental cars, speedboats etc. it´s just a bit too much right now really. that said, everyone that´s been on this forum for a while knows exactly how much I love ibiza. that won´t change - but as you can see, I simply care. I also think that the government should already now force all the rental car companies to ONLY rent out electric cars. ibiza is such a small island, it would be an absolutely perfect place to promote that. ibiza could literally turn into tesla island. and it would have a global impact since ibiza always is in the media. I also think lots of the businesses (hotels, restaurants, even the clubs) could and should do much more to take care about the environment. I still see so much plastic around here it´s frightening.

I know this all might sound a little negative right now and it´s surely not as dramatic as I paint it. but let´s just say that if I ran the island, I´d change quite a few things haha

Haha. Maybe you should stand for election?! Many thanks for the considered response from a residents perspective. It makes for an interesting read. I also find it interesting that one of the early attractions to the island was its sense of liberalism yet many of the solutions suggested will require a more socialist interventionist approach.

 

[CasaNegron]

I also find it interesting that one of the early attractions to the island was its sense of liberalism yet many of the solutions suggested will require a more socialist interventionist approach.

Unfortunately Hedonism, like many things does not scale well...

The same can be said about most political and social arrangements (Capitalism, Communism, Matriarchy, etc.). They say the optimal size of a community of humans is around 150. We like to watch all the documentaries about the hippies that landed in Ibiza 45-50 years ago all the time and can only imagine. Does any place like that exist anymore?

Fortunately for us, the island still radiates the warmth of that now long gone supernova. That too, will fade in time.

 

[Moha]

Good idea, but battery powered electrical vehicles are a dead-end road.

How long did it take to get horse drawn carriages off the roads in lieu of cars?

 

[stivi]

Haha. Maybe you should stand for election?! Many thanks for the considered response from a residents perspective. It makes for an interesting read. I also find it interesting that one of the early attractions to the island was its sense of liberalism yet many of the solutions suggested will require a more socialist interventionist approach.

don´t get me wrong, I was (and still am) just as much attracted to ibiza´s hedonism/liberalism as most people on here. but IMO the massification makes it impossible really.

oh, and just so you know: I always said prohibiting the afterhours is an error. you can´t stop people from having a good time. they will always find a way to party...and now it´s parties in villas which, as much as I love them, I think is totally not what the government wanted. I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again, if they had let space open (daytime of course) and run disco buses in the morning from the clubs to space, that would have been a simple solution. I am no party pooper at all - quite the opposite.

 

[LuckyBlueSuit]

don´t get me wrong, I was (and still am) just as much attracted to ibiza´s hedonism/liberalism as most people on here. but IMO the massification makes it impossible really.

oh, and just so you know: I always said prohibiting the afterhours is an error. you can´t stop people from having a good time. they will always find a way to party...and now it´s parties in villas which, as much as I love them, I think is totally not what the government wanted. I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again, if they had let space open (daytime of course) and run disco buses in the morning from the clubs to space, that would have been a simple solution. I am no party pooper at all - quite the opposite.

If you were standing I think you just lost the election after a promising start!

What we see in Ibiza is the way politicians operate everywhere. They are making decisions that have a visual impact rather than really solving the problem. The government could solve many of Ibiza’s issues easily but it would be big impact stuff and they know there would be serious negative consequences on the economy that they don’t want to preside over. If they had a vision over what they want to achieve and a set of objectives based around executing that vision then it would be different but it’s not.

 

[Namaste]

How long did it take to get horse drawn carriages off the roads in lieu of cars?

In Ibiza? Just until recently.

The first car was invented roughly 130 years ago and we still have enough resources for fossil fuel.
With todays production, raw materials for batteries will only last another 40 years and all available worldwide resources will only power a maximum of 40 million cars. Thats nothing compared to the 2 billion fossil fuel powered cars we have today worldwide.

Battery powered e-mobility is a fairy tale for the simple minded.

 

[Moha]

In Ibiza? Just until recently.

The first car was invented roughly 130 years ago and we still have enough resources for fossil fuel.
With todays production, raw materials for batteries will only last another 40 years and all available worldwide resources will only power a maximum of 40 million cars. Thats nothing compared to the 2 billion fossil fuel powered cars we have today worldwide.

Battery powered e-mobility is a fairy tale for the simple minded.

You are on the wrong side of history.
The same skepticism occurred when the first cars were built.


This article from the April 15, 1911 issue of the Saturday Evening Post was featured in the Post’s Special Collector’s Edition: Automobiles in America!

In 1930, Alexander Winton, by then one of the legends of the auto industry, wrote this article for the Post about the wild early days when even promoting the idea of a self-propelling machine would make you the object of ridicule

But the great obstacle to the development of the automobile was the lack of public inter- est. To advocate replacing the horse, which had served man through centuries, marked one as an imbecile.

But in the ’90s, even though I had a successful bicycle business, and was building my first car in the privacy of the cellar in my home, I began to be pointed out as “the fool who is fiddling with a buggy that will run without being hitched to a horse.” My banker called on me to say: “Winton, I am disappointed in you.”

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/...icas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles.html

 

[CasaNegron]

With todays production, raw materials for batteries will only last another 40 years

You are on the wrong side of history.
The same skepticism occurred when the first cars were built.

Unfortunately, I think you both are correct.

My opinion is that it is unwise to expect infinite growth on a finite planet, regardless of gas or electric powered.

but you know what they say about opinions and assholes...

 

[Moha]

Unfortunately, I think you both are correct.

My opinion is that it is unwise to expect infinite growth on a finite planet, regardless of gas or electric powered.

but you know what they say about opinions and assholes...

Completely agree.

The car manufacturers don't give a fcuk about our planet.

 

[Nobbie Q]

Just out of interest, what's Formentera like in July/August??

I found it alright. I've been to 3 beaches there in July and they're bigger than Ibizan beaches so there was room to dance...er chill.

I didn't find it all that bad crowd wise

 

[Namaste]

Moha, I agree with you, but you are missing the point.

Cars could only be a success, because there was oil widely available. Even with todays usage, oil reserves will last another 100 years.
We both won't see the day someone says "Sorry earth, but you are empty".
And this is different to raw materials used for batteries. With increased production, for e-mobility, we will most probably hear this words within the next 20 years.

Batteries are not sexy and they are not any near of being the solution.

 

[CasaNegron]

We both won't see the day someone says "Sorry earth, but you are empty".

In our lifetime: I think it will just get more expensive, and you will likely have to wait in line for it. This happened in the US in the 70s and to a lesser extent in the mid 00s. The causes were related to, but not exactly what we are discussing here.

Some individuals will likely find alternatives that work for them, and will find ways around it. A big easy, centralized solution is not currently in the cards.