San Antonio, what can be done?
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PP
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Maybe the powers that be are using it as a way to "rid" themselves of the lower end mass market booze establishments and trying to push for that more affluent visitor type place?
(Imho it would remove some of the soul of ibiza, even if the rabble are a pain at times)?
That's 100% what it is.
PP
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Can't imagine Kilties with these lol
The Sun God
Active Member
Maybe the powers that be are using it as a way to "rid" themselves of the lower end mass market booze establishments and trying to push for that more affluent visitor type place?
(Imho it would remove some of the soul of ibiza, even if the rabble are a pain at times)?
this will make me as popular as cholera on here but I would actually support it if they're serious. the Spanish are sick of it. I'm sick of having to explain it. the English should be famous for their great writers, inventors, musicians not twats jumping off balconies or puking on the street or clogging up A&E
so what if it goes upmarket? long overdue. give the premises to local unemployed creatives. make it arty, foody and all the rest of it. the actual setting is beautiful, just ruined by far too many of the wrong visitors and (even worse) the seedy leeches that feed off them
i know loads on here love it, have warm memories of that bird from cleethorpes that time, you inevitably get sentimental about your first holidays and never want to let go (I totally get all that) but it is 2020.... we've gotta be more conscious of each other, we all need to grow up. that doesn't mean you can't have fun, but we need to move beyond tacky relics and adapt to a new world
*ducks for cover*
MrHullMysterious
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Yeah I hear what you are saying and don't disagree. However the young British will talk shit with anyone and do more than often than not act as a catalyst for different groups to get to know each other. (Cause the groups are all going "jesus look at the crazy brits" ?) Of course other people do this as well.
The main problem I see is that there isn't just the same volume in the up market more affluent types. They may have the money but body count is less. Plus they have a lot of attractive destinations to choose from, so the ibiza government really would have to step up. ?
I guess we have to see what the next year brings. Very hard to know what is going to be around and peoples travel habits.
PP
Active Member
I'm split on this one. Selfishly I have no interest in all the crazy times anymore so build me a cafe! But should I really be robbing the young ones of the opportunity to experience what I did?
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MrHullMysterious
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Guess what I'm trying to say is be careful what you are wishing for. My local town gentrified an area which was a little bit like west end (but less fights and looky looky people!). Its a lot nicer, prettier and lots of up market gin bars (seated only etc) and restaurants. It's just full of middle age and older people having a quiet time.
The energy has gone. Also couple years after it was gentrified, quite a few places have struggled after the initial surge; but my home town is not very affluent so could be why.
Edit: and yes exactly, the energy comes from the chaos and spirit of the younger ones. Us older people like things a bit more cultured ?
The energy has gone. Also couple years after it was gentrified, quite a few places have struggled after the initial surge; but my home town is not very affluent so could be why.
Edit: and yes exactly, the energy comes from the chaos and spirit of the younger ones. Us older people like things a bit more cultured ?
Gingersolstice
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What's wrong with Cleethorpes!!! ??♀??
MrHullMysterious
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Maybe the approach is wrong to try and exclude a massive group of young people. Many a time I've ended up talking to groups of young kids who are giving it all and been that stereotype annoying brit.
However when you get to talk and know them, most are decent and acting like that cause they think they have to (saving face etc). I've been told they wish they could do what I do and not drink [as much]. I said you're in ibiza, you're allowed to do that ?
It was enlightening for them and it's something to see the group dynamic change when they have other moderating forces in play. Especially when someone older and more responsible is looking out for them.
Maybe we should have the older people act as 'spirit guides' or something ?
However when you get to talk and know them, most are decent and acting like that cause they think they have to (saving face etc). I've been told they wish they could do what I do and not drink [as much]. I said you're in ibiza, you're allowed to do that ?
It was enlightening for them and it's something to see the group dynamic change when they have other moderating forces in play. Especially when someone older and more responsible is looking out for them.
Maybe we should have the older people act as 'spirit guides' or something ?
PP
Active Member
This is why I am split.
From a 'grown up' perspective the Westend should not exist. It's not good for the overall image of the island.
I get what you mean about the soul, and for me to even vote to pull the plug would be so hypocritical. The thing is - all the while people are having the nights of their lives, someone else is clearing up the mess. If that's what the town wants then fine but I don't think it is.
The Sun God
Active Member
the thing is I'm not anti-fun, I'm not even anti-cheese. I was probably a bit gobby at 18. I'm not talking about martians here.
but I just think that festivals are now a better all round alternative to resorts and that local seaside towns shouldn't be abused. In the 70s/80s tourism was all bit new and exciting but Spain was very different and much poorer then.
anyways, just opinionzzzz... I'll hazard a confident guess this identical discussion was happening on here 15-20 years back
but I just think that festivals are now a better all round alternative to resorts and that local seaside towns shouldn't be abused. In the 70s/80s tourism was all bit new and exciting but Spain was very different and much poorer then.
anyways, just opinionzzzz... I'll hazard a confident guess this identical discussion was happening on here 15-20 years back
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
From an economic point of view it's also potentially higher risk:
If you sell tins of beans, a drop of few tens of thousands isn't a problems if sell millions.
If you sell sofas, it is.
So if the more affluent decide one year to skip ibiza it would be felt more.
It's not really for me to say how it should be, it's the people who live there, it's their island.?
PP
Active Member
the thing is I'm not anti-fun, I'm not even anti-cheese. I was probably a bit gobby at 18. I'm not talking about martians here.
but I just think that festivals are now a better all round alternative to resorts and that local seaside towns shouldn't be abused. In the 70s/80s tourism was all bit new and exciting but Spain was very different and much poorer then.
anyways, just opinionzzzz... I'll hazard a confident guess this identical discussion was happening on here 15-20 years back
I think what your saying is 100% correct. San An is used as a playground. People don't even consider that it's frowned upon because it's the norm and up to quite recently tolerated.
Every time I type something like this though I think back to all those crazy nights...Too many and too explicit to type on a public forum.
PP
Active Member
From an economic point of view it's also potentially higher risk:
If you sell tins of beans, a drop of few tens of thousands isn't a problems if sell millions.
If you sell sofas, it is.
So if the more affluent decide one year to skip ibiza it would be felt more.
It's not really for me to say how it should be, it's the people who live there, it's their island.?
I don't think it has to be about affluence. You just need to create an environment that doesn't encourage the raucous. It would definitely alienate some people and San An would never be the same again.
Thomas Cliche
Active Member
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
Yeah I get that, but the west end is 2 drinks €7, or worse 3 drinks and 2 shots for that price ?. And that model instigates a lot of the bad behaviours.
So remove that model means it more expensive which prices a lot of the young people out of the market. Especially when you consider hotel prices across the board are a lot higher than 10 years ago. Guess those people will look at Greek islands instead.
I think if you had a benimussa park type vibe down the west end, it would be different and better. People chilling, chatting and dancing, if too wasted you're ejected. Maybe make west end a gated club as it where, but each place is trying to get as much € as they can out of each person leading to over selling of alcohol ??
It's a problem that has no easy answer without causing different problems.
Digital2013
Well-Known Member
I've long said that the West End needs 'nudging' upmarket but a drastic, fast change would be a disaster.
Upmarket tourists go to places like Tuscany, South of France, Marbella and of course private villas in Ibiza. Why would they all of a sudden start holidaying in San An??
San An has a few pretty spots such as the sunset strip and Cala Bassa but aside from that it's a concrete jungle and the main beach is crap. Many of the hotels in the centre have too small rooms to be anything more than 2* rooms. Without spending about a billion that won't change.
A lot of the issues could be fixed by better policing and stamping out the muggers, pushers and pickpocketers. Grants could then be given to the current bar owners to sort their toilets out, add proper outdoor beer gardens etc and smarten the place up.
The Sun God
Active Member
I agree that change has to be done intelligently but we're not talking about poshos at the top of the chain. I'm thinking more about how rundown coastal towns in England got makeovers when people priced out of London moved away and did up old shops, pubs and made them nicer all round. This helped regenerate local areas and made them cool again. It's about mixing things up a bit more so that it doesn't just feel like a colony for kids on the piss and the trash economy that feeds off them. But yes I agree that a lot of investment and better policing is needed.
djedwardsmith
Active Member
San An is stuck in an awkward place in the market - the 18-30 holiday is no more and people aren't going away for cheap piss up holidays in anywhere near the numbers they were 10 years ago. Combine that with the fact that those that are have been able to discover cheaper places further afield in Eastern Europe.
I actually don't think some of the suggestions above about a radical overhaul are all that bad. Obviously nobody wants it to go full hipster and just be a strip of vegan bakeries and coffee shops to go, but there is much to be said about the value in diversifying the offer.
I actually don't think some of the suggestions above about a radical overhaul are all that bad. Obviously nobody wants it to go full hipster and just be a strip of vegan bakeries and coffee shops to go, but there is much to be said about the value in diversifying the offer.
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