Politics - UK - 2017

Looks like someone has swallowed Tory propaganda. More and more (hard) working people are in poverty. You also have to consider income as it relates to property prices, and also inherited wealth. Then consider those who can't work due to disability or illness and are having their benefits cut.

I don't think anyone wants a society where everyone is equal in the way you seem to suggest, but reducing the gap between the richest and the poorest and making sure everyone has access to decent public services should be an aim.

No propaganda swallowed actually. I'm long enough in the tooth now to see what policies work and which don't - be it whichever political party.

I don't disagree with what you say but just wanted to point out that you shouldn't quote rich and poor without looking a bit deeper.

I totally agree that there should be upper and lower earnings limit to help the more unfortunate.

I myself have built up a successful business and could pay myself much more than I do but I choose not to as I only need enough to live reasonably comfortable and in exchange I pay my staff a very good wage and also invest the money back into the business to expand and create more jobs. I believe this is fair but what do I know hey.
 
No propaganda swallowed actually. I'm long enough in the tooth now to see what policies work and which don't - be it whichever political party.

I don't disagree with what you say but just wanted to point out that you shouldn't quote rich and poor without looking a bit deeper.

I totally agree that there should be upper and lower earnings limit to help the more unfortunate.

I myself have built up a successful business and could pay myself much more than I do but I choose not to as I only need enough to live reasonably comfortable and in exchange I pay my staff a very good wage and also invest the money back into the business to expand and create more jobs. I believe this is fair but what do I know hey.


That's good of you, but as a business man I'm sure you can see how hard it is to be like that when competitors are not as scrupulous. That's what government is supposed to be for, rules and regulations imposed fairly so you have a level playing field. Unfortunately a lot of big business is run by physcopaths* and they have the money and power to make the field uneven.

* a scientific study showed about 1/4 American businesses are run by people who meet the criteria of physcopaths!
 
Wouldn't it be fair to break down these segments of society a little further though? For example:-

Poor - a large proportion of this catagory are poor because they are lazy, have no ambition etc.

Rich - a large proportion of this category are rich because they have worked their arses off for most of their lives, built up successful businesses that provide probably well over 75% of the job market.

Why should the 'rich' be penalised and the 'poor' be rewarded?!? I've never understood this?

I'm sure there are lots of people who would like to live in a society where everyone is totally equal but it just wouldn't work. With no incentive for those who have ambition, unemployment would skyrocket and the economy collapse very quickly.

It's so worrying how prevalent this attitude is. Poor = lazy, lack of ambition, rich = worked hard, got the rewards they deserved. It's an incredibly warped way of thinking and shows how out of touch people are with reality and how incredibly selfish we've become as a society.

I know people who do 50 hours a week on a picking line, stood up from 8am-6pm Monday-Fri, doing mind-numbingly dull and repetitive work - for minimum wage. They also often work overtime on weekends for the extra ££. They have to do this just to get by, to support their families (food, clothes, school supplies, bills) pay the rent, run their car. Are these people lazy to you?

And before you say "well why did they choose that"? why didn't they just a qualification, learn a trade, set up their own business? Because not everyone has those opportunities. Not everyone is as fortunate.

Not everyone has a supportive family for example (financially or otherwise). If you turn 16 and your parents ask you for rent or you have to move out, how do you go on to further education? You don't, you get a job that pays. If you're lucky and got a handful of decent GCSEs, you get a job at the bottom of the ladder of a decent company and eventually work your way up to a decent-ish wage maybe. But there are only so many of those jobs to go around, any many don't get so lucky. You go into low-paid, menial work with little opportunity for advancement and there you stay. You slog your guts out every day for little pay, little satisfaction, little praise, just to make sure that your kids have a warm house, food, school uniform, whatever. And then other, richer people on the internet log-on to Ibiza forums and say you're poor because you're lazy.

Perfect example of the inequalities - you know those lovely 'internships' that people can do in good businesses/professions, to get some experience, get their foot on the ladder? How can they afford to do this unpaid work unless their family is supporting them? It's really no coincidence how many people who are 'well off' also have parents who are 'well off'.

And anyway, the 'just get an education/learn a skill' argument doesn't work - look at nurses. There are nurses who put themselves through education, work long hours on low pay saving lives, who are struggling to pay the bills. They're not lazy, they clearly have ambition, they're doing a far more important job than you or I, so why aren't they rich?

And all of the above is the reality for healthy, able-bodied people. Lets not even get started on the situation if you're disabled, or become ill (physically or mentally). You could go through all the above, get aggressive cancer, go through treatment (via an increasingly underfunded, unstable NHS), then get told mid-recovery by some government assessor that you're fine and you're fit to head back to that ol' picking line, no more government handouts for you (during the period December 2011 and February 2014 2,380 people died after their claim for employment and support allowance (ESA) ended because a work capability assessment (WCA) found they were found fit for work.)

I'm so tired of this Tory government and of the people that vote them in.
 
Too much to disagree with. The sweeping generalisation is a joke.

I'm working class. Have been kicked out of home as a teenager. Slept rough. Lived in a hostel for a year. I don't despise the rich. I don't feel particularly penalised by the Conservative government. I've felt more penalised by a labour government and their relentless crusade against the motorist.

I've found Ed Miliband and Ed Balls completely uninspiring. Jeremy Corbyn and John Mcdonnell are in my opinion completely inadequate to run the country. The Labour party have spent the past two years trying to remove their party leader.

While I'm not a massive fan of Philip Hammond and Theresa May. For me at least I'd give them the nod over anyone else at the moment.

At the end of the day no one party is going to keep everyone happy. I just think people don't vote for a certain party just because of the party name. Regardless of who's leading that party and what they might offer.

As someone who has slept rough, what are your views on homelessness under the Conservative government? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-soared-under-the-conservatives-a7198966.html

I'm really interested in the psychology behind having experience sleeping rough and voting Conservative. I'm not saying you should necessarily be particularly enamoured with any of the other parties, but this is a serious issue that you have direct experience of and an issue on which their record is absolutely consistently appalling. Do you think they have your best interests at heart, more so than any of the other parties? (again, not arguing etc. here, genuinely interested in hearing other views).
 
Wow. The assumption that the poor are lazy and the elite rich are hard working is the single biggest pile of wank post ever posted on this forum in every way conceivable.

At the same rate assuming everyone who has money to be a hyper greedy silverspooned monster who only wishes to take and take until there is no more is just as alarming of a generalization.
 
As someone who has slept rough, what are your views on homelessness under the Conservative government? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-soared-under-the-conservatives-a7198966.html

I'm really interested in the psychology behind having experience sleeping rough and voting Conservative. I'm not saying you should necessarily be particularly enamoured with any of the other parties, but this is a serious issue that you have direct experience of and an issue on which their record is absolutely consistently appalling. Do you think they have your best interests at heart, more so than any of the other parties? (again, not arguing etc. here, genuinely interested in hearing other views).


I have no feeling with this issue at all if I'm honest. It was a very brief period in my teens. I was put into a hostel quickly after. And instead of slipping into the negative cycle at the hostel. I increased hours of a job I got instead of going into higher education (had just taken GCSE exams at the time). Moved into shared accommodation eventually and generally got on with it.
 
Fair dos. And I hear you.

Whilst I'm firmly in the "money can't buy happiness" camp, in terms of sympathy I will always sway in favour of the poor over the rich, just because of the aforementioned opportunity vs lack-of opportunity.

I don't begrudge anymore making hard-earned cash, rich or otherwise.
I think the antipathy you mention should probably be aimed squarely at the aristocracy who have had the overwhelming majority of their wealth bequeathed to them and have never worked a day in their life! The same multi-millionaires who avoid taxes wherever they can.

These are the true enemies of the people. Not immigrants, single mothers or the unemployed as our media would have you believe.
 
Wow. The assumption that the poor are lazy and the elite rich are hard working is the single biggest pile of wank post ever posted on this forum in every way conceivable.

If you bothered to read my post properly, I said "a large proportion" which is largely based on my own experiences and observations. I never said "all" which is what you're inferring.
 
i'm as middle class as it gets and probably the laziest motherfcker that ever lived

in the not too distant future when we ALL get replaced by robots, any remaining work ethic will go out the window
 
there is definitely a debate to be had about what the welfare state is actually for in the 21st century and how affordable it is as the population ages but I think the way the Tories went about it under IDS was just ill-thought out and in some cases very harsh. it is for instance ridiculous that wealthy old people still get free bus passes. the young should be supported more but they can't be arsed to vote so hence have no voice at the top table...
 
I dunno whether it's true to say they simply can't be bothered. Truer to say they've been coerced into believing voting won't make a difference.
 
are under 30s inherently lazy across society? it's an interesting one

countless surveys of (legit) employers find that migrants are preferred to local workers for having better attitude/work ethic - the reason certain low-end sectors need people from thousands of miles away is that local kids turn their nose up at those jobs (same story across western world).

then you've got unemployable middle class kids - a whole generation (mine included) were led to believe university would set you up for life but actually it just means useless degrees. people like me were led to believe we were better than doing the donkey work somehow because we got pissed in student bars for 3 years. this is what the political class are belatedly getting to grips with - we need more civil engineers and fewer health & safety and diversity in the workplace officers
 
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