Bruce Forsyth
- Thread starter russ
- Start date
Beckiboo
Active Member
There are for's and against in both arguments. Yes it is a hateful word which should never be used due to it's past use discriminating against Asian people. It's gone from being a word commonly used to describe someone from Pakistan, to being a derogatory term to describe anyone who has brown skin, whether they come from India, Bangladesh, UAE, China..... etc etc!!
Anyone with half a brain wouldn't call someone it in today's day and age.
But I do agree the backlash is perhaps slightly OTT. He's made it clear he didn't mean it in any offensive way at all. He's also South African (correct me if I'm wrong). I've got family and friends from this corner of the world who are not as PC as Britain. They just wouldn't see the harm in calling somebody a slang term, even if we would think it's racist. It's not that they're more racist than Brits in any way, it's just not instilled in them to think of it as a word you shouldn't say.
One thing that does really annoy me though, is when Asian or black people use these derogotary words about eachother in everyday chat, songs etc etc. The amount of rappers (and every day on the bus,tube etc) you hear young black men calling eachother "N****" actually appalls me. For the past 50 years people have been fighting to eradicate this word, yet for the very group who should never use it, use it frequently! I just can't figure it out!
Anyone with half a brain wouldn't call someone it in today's day and age.
But I do agree the backlash is perhaps slightly OTT. He's made it clear he didn't mean it in any offensive way at all. He's also South African (correct me if I'm wrong). I've got family and friends from this corner of the world who are not as PC as Britain. They just wouldn't see the harm in calling somebody a slang term, even if we would think it's racist. It's not that they're more racist than Brits in any way, it's just not instilled in them to think of it as a word you shouldn't say.
One thing that does really annoy me though, is when Asian or black people use these derogotary words about eachother in everyday chat, songs etc etc. The amount of rappers (and every day on the bus,tube etc) you hear young black men calling eachother "N****" actually appalls me. For the past 50 years people have been fighting to eradicate this word, yet for the very group who should never use it, use it frequently! I just can't figure it out!
hauskitten
No longer active
I didn't say some of my best friends are black though I hardly know any black people that was just MARKB twisting things and as far as the 'N' word goes thats a different story altogether.. but the 'P' word is a bit different. I know in the right context it can be acceptable If you asked the asians I know if they are paki or indian they would say paki, they wouldn't say don't call me that..saying "a" 'P' sounds a bit wrong I can see but only in the same way that 'a frog' does. Saying nasty words alongside 'P' is the issue but take away the word from that person and they are still a racist c***. You can be racist and never use any of those terms, you could physically harm someone of another race and never have said that word. You can slip up and say that word and not have a prejudiced bone in your body.. so what I am saying is that it is really stupid to make a big fuss of Brucie who is harmless, when these same people aren't exactly going out looking for genuine racists to have a go at..The problem is with a lot of Brits they always want to bring their own people down. They'd rather slag Brucie off and get him sacked than actually do something against racism. I bet half of the people who want Brucie disciplined have never even signed a petition against the BNP or joined a march against racism or even care for that matter. Their lives are ruled by the Sun and they'll probably vote conservative this year and have bought Peter Andres album
Morbyd
Moderator
Now THAT is a true crime against humanity.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
There's a whole separate argument about empowerment through reclaiming racist terms right there Becki
its worse than that Johnny, it's "insania"
Beckiboo
Active Member
So a black person says it, its "reclaiming" the word?
A white person says it, it's racism?
Dunno.... I'm just not getting it
You don't hear the Irish calling eachother Paddy do you?!
hauskitten
No longer active
Also its ok to make insulting jokes about white people because a) people who are PC will roll over, take it and say we deserve it and b) people like me will just find it funny
hauskitten
No longer active
I call myself a thick fake blonde bint now too its great, if you reclaim the words no-one else can use them against you
Beckiboo
Active Member
I guess the difference is white people have never been persecuted for their colour, unlike most other races.
Although I have actually encountered light racism (aimed towards me!) in work. Nothing spiteful, but just comments about me being white when working with a multi-racial team. Of course nothing happened from it, but it doesn make you wonder if the boot was on the other foot.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
So a black person says it, its "reclaiming" the word?
A white person says it, it's racism?
Dunno.... I'm just not getting it
You don't hear the Irish calling eachother Paddy do you?!
It's an explanation some rappers have offered.
I call myself a 'plastic paddy' all the time. In conversation with Irish descent mates, our fathers, who are remarkably homogenous, are often referred to as 'stubborn old paddies'. Whether they'd appreciate it remains to be tested, but, perhaps bizarrely, it's definitely said with love.
Beckiboo
Active Member
They do if someones name's Patrick.
Not unless they call themselves it, anyway that's a shortening of a name isn't it.
A friend's dad is called Patrick, and someone once made the mistake of calling him Paddy.... well... lets just say he wasn't best pleased
Morbyd
Moderator
Ya... I never quite understood it either, Becks. Pretty dumb stuff, in my humble (but correct) opinion.So a black person says it, its "reclaiming" the word?
A white person says it, it's racism?
Dunno.... I'm just not getting it
You don't hear the Irish calling eachother Paddy do you?!
You'll find it's one of those things that tends to split the black community. The more educated tend to find it offensive no matter what. Then there's this hip hop culture that seems to embrace the word as long as it's them saying it.
hauskitten
No longer active
Where do you get this bull**** from?
You're clearly a ****ing lunatic.
Oh so you just want a ban on the 'P' word ?? And its OK to call someone a lunatic then, do you realise how much suffering mentally ill people go through because of ignorant people like you?
See you can't have double standards Marky boy
interesting comments in this thread - not really sure where I stand on PC (as I said before I think it's turned into an industry far removed from the original ideals) - like I said before I think we need to be more intelligent in how "we" respond to gaffes - are they really as offensive as racist actions (see recent NF-style demos in Luton and elsewhere - that is the REAL deal!) and should they really followed by media witchhunts? This is not to excuse offence where it is genuinely meant - merely to apply more common sense and dare I say it humour where situations allow.
I suppose the last time I heard the word 'Paki' used in my immediate environment it was at an irish pub in West Ealing, when I was living there 5 years ago. The local Polish, Irish and Sikh communities are ALL pretty un-PC when it comes to describing each other - often in savage but ultimately harmless ways - although inevitably you don't get many asians at the irish boozers or vice versa. It was st patrick's day with all the silly hats and I walked in with my sikh flatmate and the old barman leant forward and asked my flatmate - are you here for Paddy Day or Paki Day? My friend laughed out loud and somehow managed to perch the hat on his turban. There really was no animosity or tension - it was like an in-joke - not that funny from my angle - but because it was silly rather than offensive. I'm not drawing any general conclusions from this incident, others might have reacted differently, but it was very interesting to me and showed how we have come have a long way from the race riot days and that a young generation of Asian and Black people don't need to be mollycoddled or need their ears covered by the benign WHITE liberal media and that they are as equally adept at dishing it as at taking it. Try telling a young Skih guy driving around southall in a Mercedes with a flourishing IT business with white employees that he is a 'victim' of colonialism today. The fact the exchange I described could take place without any animosity shows how different, slightly ghettosied yet still neighbourly communities have flourished esp around London where the main motto is often 'vive le difference'. I know for a fact that notions of PC don't apply within the Sikh community and for sikh women in particular, the very idea of equality in the home is totally martian....
So this is not an exuse for old school racist language to be brought back, simply saying, society is a lot more sophisticated and complex than it was and you can't make sweeping assumptions about who will get offended by what. Ever since Ali G lampooned "wiggers" the rules of actually constitutes racism have been subverted and the idea of white v non-white has been radically blurred.
Final point - I saw an East European market trader in Lewisham being savagely abused over the summer for apparently shortchanging a lady. "Why don't you f*** off back home to your country? you dirty, F***ing peasant!" she said.....
....in her West Indian accent.
I suppose the last time I heard the word 'Paki' used in my immediate environment it was at an irish pub in West Ealing, when I was living there 5 years ago. The local Polish, Irish and Sikh communities are ALL pretty un-PC when it comes to describing each other - often in savage but ultimately harmless ways - although inevitably you don't get many asians at the irish boozers or vice versa. It was st patrick's day with all the silly hats and I walked in with my sikh flatmate and the old barman leant forward and asked my flatmate - are you here for Paddy Day or Paki Day? My friend laughed out loud and somehow managed to perch the hat on his turban. There really was no animosity or tension - it was like an in-joke - not that funny from my angle - but because it was silly rather than offensive. I'm not drawing any general conclusions from this incident, others might have reacted differently, but it was very interesting to me and showed how we have come have a long way from the race riot days and that a young generation of Asian and Black people don't need to be mollycoddled or need their ears covered by the benign WHITE liberal media and that they are as equally adept at dishing it as at taking it. Try telling a young Skih guy driving around southall in a Mercedes with a flourishing IT business with white employees that he is a 'victim' of colonialism today. The fact the exchange I described could take place without any animosity shows how different, slightly ghettosied yet still neighbourly communities have flourished esp around London where the main motto is often 'vive le difference'. I know for a fact that notions of PC don't apply within the Sikh community and for sikh women in particular, the very idea of equality in the home is totally martian....
So this is not an exuse for old school racist language to be brought back, simply saying, society is a lot more sophisticated and complex than it was and you can't make sweeping assumptions about who will get offended by what. Ever since Ali G lampooned "wiggers" the rules of actually constitutes racism have been subverted and the idea of white v non-white has been radically blurred.
Final point - I saw an East European market trader in Lewisham being savagely abused over the summer for apparently shortchanging a lady. "Why don't you f*** off back home to your country? you dirty, F***ing peasant!" she said.....
....in her West Indian accent.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
Oh so you just want a ban on the 'P' word ?? And its OK to call someone a lunatic then, do you realise how much suffering mentally ill people go through because of ignorant people like you?
See you can't have double standards Marky boy
While I think you should re-read and consider my post about retiring words with a hateful historic usage, can I commend you on referring to the honourable Mr. B as 'Marky Boy' and suggest Spotlighters adopt this for future usage.
Apols Mark, we are 100% in agreement on the issue at hand, but this really tickled me. I owe you some beers, next time I'm up there, but I will insist on referring to you as 'Marky Boy'!