Some banks have already told non-resident UK citizens that their accounts will be closed.
#Brexit
- Thread starter Fronty
- Start date
Buckley
Well-Known Member
What an embarrassment.
Don Simon
Well-Known Member
The Sun God
Active Member
mightily confused because I thought the banks had separate bilateral arrangements between countries (?) When I was looking into my tax status I was told not to worry because tax didn't come under EU negotiations. Or did I totally misunderstand?
Taxation itself comes under other international treaties, which are separate from the EU/Brexit mess, so your tax status won't change. It's the ability to provide financial services, such as banking, across the EU that will be affected and this is why some banks are telling customers to close their accounts.
mightily confused because I thought the banks had separate bilateral arrangements between countries (?) When I was looking into my tax status I was told not to worry because tax didn't come under EU negotiations. Or did I totally misunderstand?
For example, N26, the German on-line bank, already pulled out of the UK, Revolut have moved their European customers out of the UK and into Lithuania as stop-gap before permanently moving to Ireland in future. My understanding is that other banks have, or will, either ask customers to close their accounts, or they will be serviced via European branches of those banks that have them. All part of the trillions of Euros being moved out of London.
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
BREAKING NEWS
11th December 2020
UK and China sign a free trade agreement
The deal contains zero tariffs, frictionless borders and in addition, Chinese companies do not have to follow the same environmental laws, workers rights, regulations or other standards that British companys have to.
Boris Johnson said, "This is a terrific deal for the UK and I don't know why the EU turned such a good deal down. More fool them!"
*this is satire, I was bored ?
11th December 2020
UK and China sign a free trade agreement
The deal contains zero tariffs, frictionless borders and in addition, Chinese companies do not have to follow the same environmental laws, workers rights, regulations or other standards that British companys have to.
Boris Johnson said, "This is a terrific deal for the UK and I don't know why the EU turned such a good deal down. More fool them!"
*this is satire, I was bored ?
Don Simon
Well-Known Member
There is no satire anymore, it's all been done for real....
Padster
Active Member
Analysis of the negotiations:
Long post from Alex Andreou:
Just finished Friday zoom with my Brussels group. Much to report. First, a framing point: The summit went all day and all night. All was agreed: budget, environmental goals, Covid19 response. Brexit was discussed for ten minutes. All agreed the mandate is unchanged.
Everyone at the Commission is quite confused. The current offer to the UK is a deal in which IF we align, we get full access. IF, in future, we diverge they limit access or put up (some) tariffs. The UK choosing to go to NO access and FULL tariffs NOW, is incomprehensible.
This has led people to split into two camps: There is one school of thought, that Johnson really is utterly clueless. His behaviour at the UVDL dinner last night (a car crash, apparently), has fed that impression. This makes people not want to do business with this government.
The second school of thought, is that Johnson negotiated in bad faith throughout. That his aim was always No Deal and he simply strung 27 countries along, at the expense of a huge amount of work, effort and expense. This makes them not want to do business with this government.
Note that the conclusion is precisely the same under either theory. That whether idiot or fraudster, Johnson is best kept at arms length. Polling in most EU27 shows that being tough with the UK yields a big favourability boost. So, I'm afraid, nobody is riding to our rescue.
There is also a lot of weird back-channel chat that he might ask for some sort of technical extension at the 11th hour. Nobody puts much stock in it, but they are prepared and have worked up various legal mechanisms, if that happens.
Those involved with negotiations describe two basic category errors.
1. The UK seems to think that the damage of a No Deal to each party is Trade Amount A vs Trade Amount B. It seems oblivious that the UK is not only losing trade but the entire framework under which it trades.
There was not a single person who thought the UK is even semi-prepared. Most think it doesn't even have a clear idea of what is coming. Several cited the fact that the IT system, meant to accommodate border forms in THREE WEEKS, has not even gone live to be Beta-tested yet.
2. The second category error is the UK's belief that Single Market integrity is somehow negotiable. That it's a haggle, during which if the UK says "oh, go on" enough, the EU will eventually reply "oh, alright then". They have run out of ways to explain this cannot happen.
For four years the Commission tried to explain that nothing - no amount of cajoling, sweeteners, or goodwill (of which there is very little) - nothing, can ever produce a deal that can be seen to be better for the UK than it is for members. THIS IS BARNIER'S MANDATE.
And for four years, this is precisely what the UK has demanded. The prize, without buying a ticket. It won't happen. Full and free access to the market is the central offering; the essence of membership. They're not about to start giving it away to third parties. Ever.
Long post from Alex Andreou:
Just finished Friday zoom with my Brussels group. Much to report. First, a framing point: The summit went all day and all night. All was agreed: budget, environmental goals, Covid19 response. Brexit was discussed for ten minutes. All agreed the mandate is unchanged.
Everyone at the Commission is quite confused. The current offer to the UK is a deal in which IF we align, we get full access. IF, in future, we diverge they limit access or put up (some) tariffs. The UK choosing to go to NO access and FULL tariffs NOW, is incomprehensible.
This has led people to split into two camps: There is one school of thought, that Johnson really is utterly clueless. His behaviour at the UVDL dinner last night (a car crash, apparently), has fed that impression. This makes people not want to do business with this government.
The second school of thought, is that Johnson negotiated in bad faith throughout. That his aim was always No Deal and he simply strung 27 countries along, at the expense of a huge amount of work, effort and expense. This makes them not want to do business with this government.
Note that the conclusion is precisely the same under either theory. That whether idiot or fraudster, Johnson is best kept at arms length. Polling in most EU27 shows that being tough with the UK yields a big favourability boost. So, I'm afraid, nobody is riding to our rescue.
There is also a lot of weird back-channel chat that he might ask for some sort of technical extension at the 11th hour. Nobody puts much stock in it, but they are prepared and have worked up various legal mechanisms, if that happens.
Those involved with negotiations describe two basic category errors.
1. The UK seems to think that the damage of a No Deal to each party is Trade Amount A vs Trade Amount B. It seems oblivious that the UK is not only losing trade but the entire framework under which it trades.
There was not a single person who thought the UK is even semi-prepared. Most think it doesn't even have a clear idea of what is coming. Several cited the fact that the IT system, meant to accommodate border forms in THREE WEEKS, has not even gone live to be Beta-tested yet.
2. The second category error is the UK's belief that Single Market integrity is somehow negotiable. That it's a haggle, during which if the UK says "oh, go on" enough, the EU will eventually reply "oh, alright then". They have run out of ways to explain this cannot happen.
For four years the Commission tried to explain that nothing - no amount of cajoling, sweeteners, or goodwill (of which there is very little) - nothing, can ever produce a deal that can be seen to be better for the UK than it is for members. THIS IS BARNIER'S MANDATE.
And for four years, this is precisely what the UK has demanded. The prize, without buying a ticket. It won't happen. Full and free access to the market is the central offering; the essence of membership. They're not about to start giving it away to third parties. Ever.
Padster
Active Member
Thing is when Thatcher went and got us the rebate and other concessions she sent a mixture of diplomats and civil servants, people who were used to complex negotiations and how to develop good working relationships. Johnson sent members of his cabinet, people who nobody else in their right mind would trust to open a bag of crisps by themselves. He even sent Dominic Raab at one point, a man who can barely even tie his own shoe laces with out pitching forward and smacking his head on the floor. It absolutely beggars belief.
Last edited:
Don Simon
Well-Known Member
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
There was a fisherman on BBC who was involved in the cod wars. He was like, brilliant! Too long in coming in taking back all our waters, send in the navy patrol boats!.
While appreciate his sentiment, he also said the UK was conned way back when join the EEC in that we lost fishing quotas. My point would be the uk knowingly gave that up as fishing is a low % of GDP and the stuff we got in return was worth more.
He then finished off by saying the EU is like the Soviet union, with just more money ?
I don't eat the fresh produce brought in from europe (don't win friends with salad!?), but have been looking at the stuff I regularly buy inc stuff off amazon to see where it's made and stocking up.
Even if uk waves checks for stuff coming in to ease the pain, the lorries on return will need to be and so cause problems.
I think 3 months of no deal will be perfect for focusing the minds. I defo do not want Johnson or tories kicked out. You broke it, you own it, you fix it. ?
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
On a side note, the only reason I can think they don't want to go with "free access while aligned, if diverge either adjust laws to be equivalent or have tariffs" offer from EU, is that they want to diverge and deregulate (aka reduce workers rights, standards, whatever) quite soon ?
Note, when eu says same environmental laws as them, they don't mean we have to copy paste and adopt it exactly. We can pass our own laws which have equivalent standards or better.
2020 - that was a bad year
2021 - hold my beer .... ?
Note, when eu says same environmental laws as them, they don't mean we have to copy paste and adopt it exactly. We can pass our own laws which have equivalent standards or better.
2020 - that was a bad year
2021 - hold my beer .... ?
Padster
Active Member
Whilst ordinarily I would support this sentiment, do you really think Johnson could fix this? The man couldn't fix a stare whilst looking in a mirror he's so incompetent.There was a fisherman on BBC who was involved in the cod wars. He was like, brilliant! Too long in coming in taking back all our waters, send in the navy patrol boats!.
While appreciate his sentiment, he also said the UK was conned way back when join the EEC in that we lost fishing quotas. My point would be the uk knowingly gave that up as fishing is a low % of GDP and the stuff we got in return was worth more.
He then finished off by saying the EU is like the Soviet union, with just more money ?
I don't eat the fresh produce brought in from europe (don't win friends with salad!?), but have been looking at the stuff I regularly buy inc stuff off amazon to see where it's made and stocking up.
Even if uk waves checks for stuff coming in to ease the pain, the lorries on return will need to be and so cause problems.
I think 3 months of no deal will be perfect for focusing the minds. I defo do not want Johnson or tories kicked out. You broke it, you own it, you fix it. ?
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
He can't even comb his hair and doubtful he ties his own shoelaces ?.
From what I gather he is lazy and not a details person, so fine, hand the task to people/civil servants who are to sort it and give him the options.
But unfortunately what are the options to "fix it"?
- align and stay aligned for core trade items
- rejoin (if eu would entertain that I don't think so)
- free trade deals with likes with india etc.
- become an irrelevant mino on world stage.
None of those sound doable at least in short term imho except last one.
Perhaps we have to let this cycle go and wait until the nation that is super power complete its circuit west (was china thousands years ago, then Persia, then europe/uk, then usa and now heading back to China - this is tongue in cheek ?)
(Side note, how can you have free trade deal with India etc? My company employs graphic artists around world. The can hire x5 Indian staff for salary of 1 uk artists. And the Indian artists are just as good)
AntonioGeordio
Well-Known Member
JayDR8
Active Member
These are the main points. The thick are, as always, duped by them saying 'look we can have better workers rights(swap this out for anything) now we've left the EU'. You could have anyway because the EU only has minimum standards, you can go beyond them if you like, but of course they don't want to it's just another stick to bash the EU with to appeal to the xenophobic/racist supporters of brexit.
Our country is full of thick racists who all suffer from British Exceptionalism. The majority also have an unhealthy obsession with the war, in many ways Mark Francois sums up the people he represents very well, maybe apart from the those allegations against him....
Last edited:
djedwardsmith
Active Member
There was a 3 part documentary going inside the foreign office when Boris was there, and it shows you everything you need to know about him. Utterly useless, offensive, doesn't listen to his staff and ad-libs which only ends in him getting into trouble.
I don't want him out. I want him to suffer through and own his mess, just as I do those that voted for this.
Don Simon
Well-Known Member
Cold War Steve (@Coldwar_Steve) / Twitter Please read the comments
Last edited: