#Brexit

It's a bit more serious than that - Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against its will. ~60% voted to remain up here.
Scotland is being dragged out of the eu against its will?
Had Scotland voted for independence would they not have been out of the eu automatically, then have to reapply?
In which case could have to wait another 20 or so years like other countries have.
Am I right?
 
the Scottish and Northern Irish situations could both get very interesting if local government in either tried to hold "unofficial" referendums on seceding from the UK. Because then Westminster would have to decide between acquiescing (as Cameron did in Scotland), ignoring the result or reinstating direct rule. Taken to its logical extreme, there could even be British police (or even military?) sent to Edinburgh to prevent what the English media would probably label an 'uprising' or 'coup'. This might sound melodramatic but having lived through what happened in Spain/CAT in 2017, when national security forces were sent in to confiscate ballot boxes, Johnson may well decide that that's the only way to go
 

Quite interesting, describes some of the issues presenting themselves on this thread quite well.
 
Scotland can’t just have a referendum whenever they want because they disagree with something.

They had a vote, under a Tory government and voted to stay.

Tempted to say give them another go - if they vote independence take away the Pound, hard border, no funding. If they vote stay then shut down Hollyrood and that’s it
 
Scottish Independence, Brexit, Trump. The common theme here, is the losers, not accepting the result.

Trump admires this guy. I'll say no more and allow you to draw your own conclusions.


But I guess those of us who have our concerns about this type of leader are snowflakes.
 
the Scottish and Northern Irish situations could both get very interesting if local government in either tried to hold "unofficial" referendums on seceding from the UK. Because then Westminster would have to decide between acquiescing (as Cameron did in Scotland), ignoring the result or reinstating direct rule. Taken to its logical extreme, there could even be British police (or even military?) sent to Edinburgh to prevent what the English media would probably label an 'uprising' or 'coup'. This might sound melodramatic but having lived through what happened in Spain/CAT in 2017, when national security forces were sent in to confiscate ballot boxes, Johnson may well decide that that's the only way to go
Any Irish vote on unity will be at least 5-10 years away. Our disfunctional gov't (Stormont) have to get their own house in order before we cross that road.

NI just aint stable enough yet and we have to see were Brexit takes us, which i've mentioned could be disastrous, as our circumstances are much different to the mainland.
 
Personally I think it’s blown out of proportion. A lot of the people moaning about poverty are carrying iPhones, cigarettes and down the bookies every day. I’ve seen it with my own mates

This country is one of the best in the world.i just some people would start believing in the Uk and show some national pride.

People now have to move on. The conservatives are in and Brexit is going to happen.this is what the majority of people want.Democracy ??

There's some colossal f***ing morons in this thread, Nostalgic being one of them, but f*** me you take the biscuit with this garbage.

Poverty blown out of proportion?

Do me a favour, visit your local food bank. Walk down your local high street. Speak to people at your local charity shop. Open your f***ing eyes.

I don't doubt there are people milking the system. There always will be. It's laughable that you chastise those who do it at such a low level but support those in the Tory party who claim EU funds they don't need for their businesses whilst fighting to leave.

This country is a toxic cess-pool of far-right rhetoric now playing out into the mainstream. For all the ripostes of "snowflakes" and garbage like that, anybody with the slightest grasp of history can see that this is how facist regimes began.

Instead of instantly just throwing your toys out of the pram with a DUR HUR YOU FINK EVERY1 IS A NAZY, maybe actually wonder why so many people are worried about what the next five years will bring? Increasing Islamaphobia, attacks on journalists, endless death threats, the normalisation of xenophobic language. If you still think a country that breeds that sort of atmosphere is Great then you want your f***ing head wobbling.

Speaking of Nostalgiac - You voted to Leave because of all the Polish shops and foreign criminals. Fine. I disagree with your reasoning, but at least you've explained it. But you didn't actually answer how leaving the EU will improve your area? Yes, you would expect crime from foreigners may go down. But when they take their tax money home with them, the close their shops, you'll see your bills go up, you'll see more 'homegrown' criminals coming out the woodwork.

Sounds wonderful.
 
There's some colossal f***ing morons in this thread, Nostalgic being one of them, but f*** me you take the biscuit with this garbage.

Poverty blown out of proportion?

Do me a favour, visit your local food bank. Walk down your local high street. Speak to people at your local charity shop. Open your f***ing eyes.

I don't doubt there are people milking the system. There always will be. It's laughable that you chastise those who do it at such a low level but support those in the Tory party who claim EU funds they don't need for their businesses whilst fighting to leave.

This country is a toxic cess-pool of far-right rhetoric now playing out into the mainstream. For all the ripostes of "snowflakes" and garbage like that, anybody with the slightest grasp of history can see that this is how facist regimes began.

Instead of instantly just throwing your toys out of the pram with a DUR HUR YOU FINK EVERY1 IS A NAZY, maybe actually wonder why so many people are worried about what the next five years will bring? Increasing Islamaphobia, attacks on journalists, endless death threats, the normalisation of xenophobic language. If you still think a country that breeds that sort of atmosphere is Great then you want your f***ing head wobbling.

Speaking of Nostalgiac - You voted to Leave because of all the Polish shops and foreign criminals. Fine. I disagree with your reasoning, but at least you've explained it. But you didn't actually answer how leaving the EU will improve your area? Yes, you would expect crime from foreigners may go down. But when they take their tax money home with them, the close their shops, you'll see your bills go up, you'll see more 'homegrown' criminals coming out the woodwork.

Sounds wonderful.
Glad to see your wifi has come back on!


Getting on the housing ladder for a start. Instead of EU nationals coming here popping a kid out and jumping straight onto the list for a council house which is what Sandwell Council do

No more polska shops as you say once they have gone it will free up more space for different business opportunitys other than eastern european shops

#3 Straight away crime is reduced which is a plus for the area

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/7a94c2b4-d666-11e5-8887-98e7feb46f27

I would say leaving the EU for my area is a benefit
 
Increasing Islamaphobia
Terrorist attack last month on London Bridge. Another one there a couple of years previous. CHILDREN blown up at a pop concert. Bombs on trains. 1400 children raped in one town alone. Soldier beheaded in the street. The list goes on. Yet you’re concerned about a few hurt words.
 
Terrorist attack last month on London Bridge. Another one there a couple of years previous. CHILDREN blown up at a pop concert. Bombs on trains. 1400 children raped in one town alone. Soldier beheaded in the street. The list goes on. Yet you’re concerned about a few hurt words.

I realise this may be difficult for your tiny mind to understand - but you can be concerned about both! I know, fancy that. You can be concerned about how a convicted terrorist was allowed to be released without thinking it's ok to call Muslims wearing a burka letterboxes, or to think it's fine to demonise an entire minority group purely off the actions of a few.

Glad to see your wifi has come back on!


Getting on the housing ladder for a start. Instead of EU nationals coming here popping a kid out and jumping straight onto the list for a council house which is what Sandwell Council do

No more polska shops as you say once they have gone it will free up more space for different business opportunitys other than eastern european shops

#3 Straight away crime is reduced which is a plus for the area

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/7a94c2b4-d666-11e5-8887-98e7feb46f27

I would say leaving the EU for my area is a benefit

Do you have any evidence of that first point? Genuine question because that's not how it works in my area at all. A child doesn't put you to the front of the list regardless of nationality.

The shop argument is rubbish - take a look at any high street and there's plenty of empty units, removing the Polish shops won't magically make businesses pop up.

Tbf I only ever come on here occasionally when I'm feeling the Ibiza blues but I always end up with several notifications about this thread and it's the same old suspects spouting rubbish. Credit where it's due though, I respect that you at least try and justify your opinion - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. And you've massively be outdone by Matter of late. Speaking of;

View attachment 8148Calling people facist, nazi, far right because you don’t agree with them is pathetic. The U.K. is very tolerant, especially compared to some of our European neighbours
https://medium.com/@NoahCarl/tolerance-of-inter-ethnic-relationships-in-europe-c27bda8a25e1

Again, this monumentally flawed false equivalence tactic of yours is flawed from the off - People don't call people facists or nazi's or far right because they disagree with them. They do so because they spout facist or far right views.

I disagree with Mike Dean whenever he awards a penalty against Arsenal, I don't call him a facist. I disagree with Alan Sugar when he doesn't sack Lottie for ruining another task. I don't call him a nazi.

Maybe, just maybe, if someone is calling you a facist or a nazi, you need to take a quick check of your actions and re-evaluate how they may be perceived? The Nazi's in World War Two weren't just those who had guns, weren't just those who rounded people up in the showers. They were the enablers, those who sat back and watched, those who verbally supported the actions. And de-humanising a particular group of people is exactly how fascism starts.

I can guarantee you're a white male, younger than 50, salary around the UK average. You have no idea what a lack of tolerance actually feels like. And, frankly, neither do I. Which is why when people who do experience it say it's increasing, we should listen to their views.
 
View attachment 8148Calling people facist, nazi, far right because you don’t agree with them is pathetic. The U.K. is very tolerant, especially compared to some of our European neighbours
https://medium.com/@NoahCarl/tolerance-of-inter-ethnic-relationships-in-europe-c27bda8a25e1

The research is from the EU, but it is not complete.

Very understandable , considering the publisher: Noah Carl.

Academic scrutiny of Noah Carl's [OpenPsych] papers clearly reveals selective use of data and unsound statistical methods which have been used to legitimise racist stereotypes about groups.
—Clement Mouhot, Professor of Mathematics, Cambridge University[1]
Noah Carl is a sociologist who outside of his respectable sociology work, publishes racialism pseudoscience and wrote an Islamophobicpaper for OpenPsych. For this reason he has been described as living a "double life".[2] After the latter was exposed in December 2018, hundreds of academics signed a letter calling for Cambridge University to reconsider the award of his fellowship and to stop employing him as a postdoctoral researcher.[3][4]

In April 2019, Noah Carl was stripped of his fellowship at Cambridge University and sacked from his job, over his publications in OpenPsych and links to far-right extremists, including Emil Kirkegaard.[5][6][7] Carl is the second most prolific contributor to the racist OpenPsych journal.[8]

Carl controversially attended the London Conference on Intelligence and his papers published in the OpenPsych pseudojournals are now extensively quoted with approval by far-right groups and the conspiracy theorist website InfoWars:


 
I realise this may be difficult for your tiny mind to understand - but you can be concerned about both! I know, fancy that. You can be concerned about how a convicted terrorist was allowed to be released without thinking it's ok to call Muslims wearing a burka letterboxes, or to think it's fine to demonise an entire minority group purely off the actions of a few.



Do you have any evidence of that first point? Genuine question because that's not how it works in my area at all. A child doesn't put you to the front of the list regardless of nationality.

The shop argument is rubbish - take a look at any high street and there's plenty of empty units, removing the Polish shops won't magically make businesses pop up.

Tbf I only ever come on here occasionally when I'm feeling the Ibiza blues but I always end up with several notifications about this thread and it's the same old suspects spouting rubbish. Credit where it's due though, I respect that you at least try and justify your opinion - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. And you've massively be outdone by Matter of late. Speaking of;



Again, this monumentally flawed false equivalence tactic of yours is flawed from the off - People don't call people facists or nazi's or far right because they disagree with them. They do so because they spout facist or far right views.

I disagree with Mike Dean whenever he awards a penalty against Arsenal, I don't call him a facist. I disagree with Alan Sugar when he doesn't sack Lottie for ruining another task. I don't call him a nazi.

Maybe, just maybe, if someone is calling you a facist or a nazi, you need to take a quick check of your actions and re-evaluate how they may be perceived? The Nazi's in World War Two weren't just those who had guns, weren't just those who rounded people up in the showers. They were the enablers, those who sat back and watched, those who verbally supported the actions. And de-humanising a particular group of people is exactly how fascism starts.

I can guarantee you're a white male, younger than 50, salary around the UK average. You have no idea what a lack of tolerance actually feels like. And, frankly, neither do I. Which is why when people who do experience it say it's increasing, we should listen to their views.
http://www.sandwell.gov.uk/info/200226/find_a_home/2469/rent_a_council_property

This is how they do it. We have had a mass influx of Eastern Europeans in Sandwell as my former post shows. The houses are filled to the brim with them, one family in a house was evicted after I reported them. Left the house in a shit tip, uncut grass, clothes being left out to dry on the front gate. The stuff the council left on the lawn after they moved was utterly disgusting. They don't deserve it

Its a cheap loophole to get on the property ladder, I gurantee its one of the reasons why they moved here.

#2 regarding the shops. Its not rubbish at all, my area has been left to rot by the Labour Party, ALL buildings in my local town centre are full, usual cheap kebab houses with eastern european shops next to it.

With correct investment by the Torys which they pledged for our area businesses will soon be booming with new ideas. I can't see them moving back the ones who are here, but we don't need anymore shops, it was a welcome change we needed turning the area Blue, I just hope the Torys carry out there pledges for the working class voters in the Midlands & North.
 
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View attachment 8148Calling people facist, nazi, far right because you don’t agree with them is pathetic. The U.K. is very tolerant, especially compared to some of our European neighbours
https://medium.com/@NoahCarl/tolerance-of-inter-ethnic-relationships-in-europe-c27bda8a25e1

The rise of racism is worrying in other countries too. That's all this tells me. TBF, it's not even just about racism. Look at the rise of homelessness or how the disabled are finding it harder and harder. Neglect and not looking after the poorest in our society isn't exactly the same as shipping them off to concentration camps... but it can ultimately have the same effect. Consider how that anecdote about the foodbank user who has a mobile phone or the Muslim terrorist suddenly becomes reflective of the whole group in the eyes of some people. That's how it starts...
 
http://www.sandwell.gov.uk/info/200226/find_a_home/2469/rent_a_council_property

This is how they do it. We have had a mass influx of Eastern Europeans in Sandwell as my former post shows. The houses are filled to the brim with them, one family in a house was evicted after I reported them. Left the house in a shit tip, uncut grass, clothes being left out to dry on the front gate. The stuff the council left on the lawn after they moved was utterly disgusting. They don't deserve it

Its a cheap loophole to get on the property ladder, I gurantee its one of the reasons why they moved here.

#2 regarding the shops. Its not rubbish at all, my area has been left to rot by the Labour Party, ALL buildings in my local town centre are full, usual cheap kebab houses with eastern european shops next to it.

With correct investment by the Torys which they pledged for our area businesses will soon be booming with new ideas. I can't see them moving back the ones who are here, but we don't need anymore shops, it was a welcome change we needed turning the area Blue, I just hope the Torys carry out there pledges for the working class voters in the Midlands & North.

Cheers for the link, but I've got a few points to raise from their own policy document;


You have to have lived in Sandwell for a minimum of 5 years before joining the register if I've read that correctly. Which suggest it's not just the case that people turn up, get pregnant and get given a house. Additionally, if you go down to their Band ratings, nowhere in Band One does it say that pregnant women are a priority group. Sure, they may be some circumstantial examples that the local papers may have run with, or Sally down the shops told someone about, but I've not seen anything in their policy that says they're given a priority.

The wider issue, surely, has to be the lack of affordable homes and the lack of council homes that the Tory government have built since they've been in power?

All the buildings in your town centre are full? Well unless Google Street View is lying to me, I think you might be wrong there. What I also found was that whilst there are a few foreign deli's and takeaways dotted around, the vast majority of shops are staples of any UK high street. Banks, coffee shops, £ shops, furniture shops, fast food restaurants.

On your last point, I truly hope you're right. I really do. But I worry that it will be a case of the turkeys voting for Christmas.
 
I realise this may be difficult for your tiny mind to understand - but you can be concerned about both! I know, fancy that. You can be concerned about how a convicted terrorist was allowed to be released without thinking it's ok to call Muslims wearing a burka letterboxes, or to think it's fine to demonise an entire minority group purely off the actions of a few.



Do you have any evidence of that first point? Genuine question because that's not how it works in my area at all. A child doesn't put you to the front of the list regardless of nationality.

The shop argument is rubbish - take a look at any high street and there's plenty of empty units, removing the Polish shops won't magically make businesses pop up.

Tbf I only ever come on here occasionally when I'm feeling the Ibiza blues but I always end up with several notifications about this thread and it's the same old suspects spouting rubbish. Credit where it's due though, I respect that you at least try and justify your opinion - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. And you've massively be outdone by Matter of late. Speaking of;



Again, this monumentally flawed false equivalence tactic of yours is flawed from the off - People don't call people facists or nazi's or far right because they disagree with them. They do so because they spout facist or far right views.

I disagree with Mike Dean whenever he awards a penalty against Arsenal, I don't call him a facist. I disagree with Alan Sugar when he doesn't sack Lottie for ruining another task. I don't call him a nazi.

Maybe, just maybe, if someone is calling you a facist or a nazi, you need to take a quick check of your actions and re-evaluate how they may be perceived? The Nazi's in World War Two weren't just those who had guns, weren't just those who rounded people up in the showers. They were the enablers, those who sat back and watched, those who verbally supported the actions. And de-humanising a particular group of people is exactly how fascism starts.

I can guarantee you're a white male, younger than 50, salary around the UK average. You have no idea what a lack of tolerance actually feels like. And, frankly, neither do I. Which is why when people who do experience it say it's increasing, we should listen to their views.

Here’s some lack of tolerance for you.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48146305
Edited to add this link.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ution-christmas-attacks-nigeria-islamic-state
I was earning the current UK average as an apprentice, a long long time ago, so I’ve no idea why that’s relevant to this argument.
 
Cheers for the link, but I've got a few points to raise from their own policy document;


You have to have lived in Sandwell for a minimum of 5 years before joining the register if I've read that correctly. Which suggest it's not just the case that people turn up, get pregnant and get given a house. Additionally, if you go down to their Band ratings, nowhere in Band One does it say that pregnant women are a priority group. Sure, they may be some circumstantial examples that the local papers may have run with, or Sally down the shops told someone about, but I've not seen anything in their policy that says they're given a priority.

The wider issue, surely, has to be the lack of affordable homes and the lack of council homes that the Tory government have built since they've been in power?

All the buildings in your town centre are full? Well unless Google Street View is lying to me, I think you might be wrong there. What I also found was that whilst there are a few foreign deli's and takeaways dotted around, the vast majority of shops are staples of any UK high street. Banks, coffee shops, £ shops, furniture shops, fast food restaurants.

On your last point, I truly hope you're right. I really do. But I worry that it will be a case of the turkeys voting for Christmas.
I doubt you have ever stepped foot in the Black Country let alone know what town centre to search for. I live in a block where the folks in the upstairs flat have been offered a house after being only on the council for 2 years because they have a kid. Shes on benefits and he works 3 days a week so I doubt they bought a house. So thats another incorrect statement you have made

To help you out I suggest you google Carters Green high street to open your eyes as to what the average town centre look like around here. But beens as you are an Arsenal fan you probabley live in a leafy green area of the south, where Corbyn can't do no wrong.

Houses are affordable in my area, and there are plenty of them, its the scuffs the council puts in them thats the problem.

I nearly bought a 3 bed semi detached for 112k had it not fallen through due to the tennant needing a power of attorney to sell it so they are affordable
 
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