#Brexit

white_isle_calling said:
I think it's incredibly dangerous. People are passionate about Brexit, understandably. But the overwhelming majority of people need access to healthcare without a premium. How much of a sorry state will large swathes of the electorate be, if they decide to place their votes based on Brexit, rather than the fact of whether they can afford health insurance moving forward?
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Once again politicians muddying the waters over something so absolutely critical. Completely undermines everything because people wind up having to vote in a party for 5 years with potentially conflicting policies to their own views over a single issue that was put to the people outside of an election. Peoples' Vote would have absolutely determined the Brexit issue as far as Boris's bill is concerned without the Tories trying to rely on a majority to get it through Parliament by using the whip. It is clear Boris isn't prepared to let Parliament scrutinize the bill i.e. yet more contempt of Parliament, and they are just doing this to try to cling onto power for another 5 years off the back of Brexit fatigue.
 
I think most people on the left would prefer to talk about the bread/butter but how can any manifesto pledge mean anything if none of the parties can know for sure what the economy is going to be like a year down the road? this is the problem. everything is conditional. you can promise X number of roads and hospitals but if the money isn't there then it is just meaningless guff. the problem is that right now brexit still feels very abstract and chattering class, because the shit has yet to hit the fan - but when it does everyone will notice

obviously there will be other more immediate stuff on people's minds though, especially if your local services have been badly hit - but it can never be unconnected to the bigger picture
 
kimajy said:
Completely undermines everything because people wind up having to vote in a party for 5 years with potentially conflicting policies to their own views over a single issue that was put to the people outside of an election. They are just doing this to try to cling onto power for another 5 years off the back of Brexit fatigue.
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Always the case though to a certain degree, isn't it? Not often you find yourself in the position where a single party speaks for you completely (and never the case that they follow through with their promises, even if they did!)

I make you right about the strategic timing to cling onto power - and why not now, as far as they're concerned? Not like Corbyn is doing himself any favours. As @Kim Wrong Un says, it's a sorry field at a time when we need leadership the most.

I still go back to the point about whether anybody really cared about our EU-membership 5 (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15...) years ago, and if people really want to make that the most important part of their lives. Sure, there's always been a cluster of euro sceptics. But by and large, the vast majority couldn't have given less of shit. Awww, they were kinder times
 
white_isle_calling said:
Always the case though to a certain degree, isn't it? Not often you find yourself in the position where a single party speaks for you completely (and never the case that they follow through with their promises, even if they did!)

I make you right about the strategic timing to cling onto power - and why not now, as far as they're concerned? Not like Corbyn is doing himself any favours. As @Kim Wrong Un says, it's a sorry field at a time when we need leadership the most.

I still go back to the point about whether anybody really cared about our EU-membership 5 (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15...) years ago, and if people really want to make that the most important part of their lives. Sure, there's always been a cluster of euro sceptics. But by and large, the vast majority couldn't have given less of shit. Awww, they were kinder times
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Sure but bundling Brexit with a party vote that succeeds its delivery (or retrenchment) are very conflicting things for many. The whole thing could still very easily backfire for Boris. Where it would get very messy is if Corbyn had to do a deal with the LibDems to form a minority Government. I doubt they would go into coalition although Swinson would likely jump into bed with anyone at the chance of being in any way relevant. Their desperation for relevance at any price is probably why in the end they jumped at the 12th December election proposal and forced Corbyn to follow suit. It really is the most shockingly bad field I can remember in recent times.

Let's face it the LibDems would likely cave in and support Labour just for a Peoples' Vote promise with "stay" as an option against binding Leave alternatives. As far as a post-election landscape on other fronts is concerned, the mind boggles but LibDems are so duplicitous it really could mean anything. I doubt they would actually exert much restraint on Corbyn in practice.
 
If you're thinking of voting tory, kids, just have a gander at Jacob rees-mogg's comments on grenfell tragedy and ask yourself if you want that whopper having an influence over your future and your kids' future.

Before anyone says he apologised, remember this a very well educated individual I'm talking about
 
johndiamond said:
If you're thinking of voting tory, kids, just have a gander at Jacob rees-mogg's comments on grenfell tragedy and ask yourself if you want that whopper having an influence over your future and your kids' future.

Before anyone says he apologised, remember this a very well educated individual I'm talking about
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Just when you think it couldn't get worse...

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=977023216031457
 
Boils the blood....these idiots talk about being clever as if spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on posh schools makes you clever. Not so clever to go on radio and say something like that is it? Elite arseholes.
 
People are still popping up on the news saying they'll vote for Boris (they won't, he's not their local candidate, but we're going more and more American with people voting for the leader rather than anything else) because he "gets stuff done", literally ignorant to the fact he's got nothing done that he promised.
 
djedwardsmith said:
People are still popping up on the news saying they'll vote for Boris (they won't, he's not their local candidate, but we're going more and more American with people voting for the leader rather than anything else) because he "gets stuff done", literally ignorant to the fact he's got nothing done that he promised.
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He got a deal that the EU were happy with. And we'd be out now if dup and remainers didn't throw in the spanner.

On the plus side glad to see that useless twat Tom Watson resign. Done nothing for the area he represents.
 
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He got a deal by putting a border down the Irish sea (the only viable solution imho).

Does concern me though he removed the legally binding stuff about workers rights, environmental protection etc that was in Theresa May's deal and put it in the political declaration (aka, we might do this but no promises). I doubt the EU required that to happen... ?‍♂️
 
MrHullMysterious said:
He got a deal by putting a border down the Irish sea (the only viable solution imho).

Does concern me though he removed the legally binding stuff about workers rights, environmental protection etc that was in Theresa May's deal and put it in the political declaration (aka, we might do this but no promises). I doubt the EU required that to happen... ?‍♂️
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Exactly. So Boris has achieved something then
 
Johnny Vodka said:
We'll miss (decent) England too. I voted (a definite) no to Scottish independence last time. But Brexit and English politics becoming increasingly right wing would likely stop me doing the same next time.
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The ironic thing is Sturgeon wants "independence" but then will try to join the EU where Scotland will be bound by EU's rules. Jimmy Krankie has lost the plot
 
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