#Brexit

I think all this shows that the withdrawal agreement really was the best option on the table for pretty much everyone concerned. Failed to succeed due to narrow political interests and the petulance of remainers on the Labour benches.

My prediction is that Theresa May will come to be known as the most under appreciated PM of all time
 
MrHullMysterious said:
I voted remain, but personally now want no deal just so it would be crystal clear now and for generations what damage it would do to the country. (Never mind it not been the end of brexit but ~10yrs of painful negotiations)

One of authors of yellow hammer was been interviewed, said yellow hammer was not worst case for no deal, worst case hasn't been discussed in media, but the government is actually stock piling body bags for worst case...

Makes sobering thoughts for all the rhetoric for holding all the cards and a clean break etc.
Click to expand...

Stockpiling bodybags :lol: it’s crap like that that stops anyone believing any sort of doomsday predictions about no deal.
 
Crawleytown said:
I think all this shows that the withdrawal agreement really was the best option on the table for pretty much everyone concerned. Failed to succeed due to narrow political interests and the petulance of remainers on the Labour benches.

My prediction is that Theresa May will come to be known as the most under appreciated PM of all time
Click to expand...
Yeah for leaving but basically same as now except we have no say in new laws or changes and have to adopt them to stay aligned.

All a shit show.

Might be better sorting out under investment in services and infrastructure that causing pressure on them not "Johnny foreigner" (hint no foreigners still ~same number of jobs need filling for businesses in that area, or they stay unfilled & businesses struggle)
 
Crawleytown said:
Stockpiling bodybags :lol: it’s crap like that that stops anyone believing any sort of doomsday predictions about no deal.
Click to expand...
? I agree but this was direct from mouth of expert person who worked on the report.

Look at what a power cut for an hour does to the country. Now think bigger. Society is a thin veneer over chaos.

Anyhow got another 3 months of this if the EU agree to an extension.
 
kimajy said:
Wasn't always like that here but it is now. Not the worst in Europe but bad enough.
Click to expand...
not here to argue (I've changed) but your comments are a bit of a generalisation ... and rude. and ill-informed - unless you happen to have met all the brits, obviously, in which case, go right ahead

Also, interested to know what you think taking full advantage of no deal and making a success of things would be ?
 
DarrenW said:
not here to argue (I've changed) but your comments are a bit of a generalisation ... and rude. and ill-informed - unless you happen to have met all the brits, obviously, in which case, go right ahead

Also, interested to know what you think taking full advantage of no deal and making a success of things would be ?
Click to expand...

I'm British and live in UK (in case you hadn't worked it out by now) ... but I've lived abroad for well over 20 years in my life also. My comments relate to the culture that has developed in the UK over the years - if you can't see it yourself I am not going to try to explain. It is what ultimately makes me lose all hope of the country 'rallying to the challenge' and embracing personal sacrifice for the hypothetical long term good of the whole in respect of anything at all on a macro scale.

Taking full advantage of a no deal would require a huge drop in living standards in the short term for most, including freeing up tax revenues for large scale investment in government-subsidized infrastructure and innovation [instead of spending endless sums on benefits to keep people out of "poverty", educate their children and pay for all their healthcare], removal of workers' rights to allow a much more exploitative business culture, a move to increased self-sufficiency during the transition phase (as South Africa successfully managed to mitigate the impact of sanctions during the Apartheid years) with a view to creating an aggressively competitive export-focused economy with a global reach way more diverse than at present at the forefront of technological advancement.

There is no point being politically "free of Europe" only to adopt a similar or identical framework domestically and cut off the hands of business with fair and equitable working practices. You have to compete with the near-slavery conditions elsewhere after all. Most of the Cornish daffodil crop was left uncut this year because migrant workers wouldn't come to UK to pick them in the run up to 31st March. Had job centres been empowered to ship off jobseekers (or prisons their prisoners) into forced labour camps to do these jobs or else lose their benefits / have sentences increased that could have been avoided. Ideally the 'out of work' would have jumped at the chance to work for a pittance themselves "for the good of Britain".

Of course I am making points with my tongue firmly in my cheek to some extent. But there is a serious side to this and it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines here. "Entitled Britain" needs a massive wake-up call to understand how precarious the existence others risk their lives in boats to access even a small part of really is when they start putting nationalistic principles and xenophobic attitudes above economic advantage, whilst effectively sitting back and expecting to be kept by the State to a greater or lesser extent.
 
Last edited:
kimajy said:
Bits are way too lazy to take full advantage of a no deal and make a success of things. Zero work ethic and hugely overinflated expectations of minimum living standards. They wouldn't survive the first 2 weeks of disruption before calling on the State to compensate them ! Such a joke.
Click to expand...

DarrenW said:
you know us bits so well.... lazy, zero work ethic, overinflated expectations, a joke !
Click to expand...

There are some Tories would agree with you both. ?

www.bbc.co.uk

British workers 'among worst idlers', suggest Tory MPs

Many British employees "prefer a lie-in to hard work", a group of Conservative MPs claims as they call for measures to boost productivity.
www.bbc.co.uk

*Sorry, DarrenW - just read down and saw you were joking.
 
kimajy said:
I'm British and live in UK (in case you hadn't worked it out by now) ... but I've lived abroad for well over 20 years in my life also. My comments relate to the culture that has developed in the UK over the years - if you can't see it yourself I am not going to try to explain. It is what ultimately makes me lose all hope of the country 'rallying to the challenge' and embracing personal sacrifice for the hypothetical long term good of the whole in respect of anything at all on a macro scale.

Taking full advantage of a no deal would require a huge drop in living standards in the short term for most, including freeing up tax revenues for large scale investment in government-subsidized infrastructure and innovation [instead of spending endless sums on benefits to keep people out of "poverty", educate their children and pay for all their healthcare], removal of workers' rights to allow a much more exploitative business culture, a move to increased self-sufficiency during the transition phase (as South Africa successfully managed to mitigate the impact of sanctions during the Apartheid years) with a view to creating an aggressively competitive export-focused economy with a global reach way more diverse than at present at the forefront of technological advancement.

There is no point being politically "free of Europe" only to adopt a similar or identical framework domestically and cut off the hands of business with fair and equitable working practices. You have to compete with the near-slavery conditions elsewhere after all. Most of the Cornish daffodil crop was left uncut this year because migrant workers wouldn't come to UK to pick them in the run up to 31st March. Had job centres been empowered to ship off jobseekers (or prisons their prisoners) into forced labour camps to do these jobs or else lose their benefits / have sentences increased that could have been avoided. Ideally the 'out of work' would have jumped at the chance to work for a pittance themselves "for the good of Britain".

Of course I am making points with my tongue firmly in my cheek to some extent. But there is a serious side to this and it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines here. "Entitled Britain" needs a massive wake-up call to understand how precarious the existence others risk their lives in boats to access even a small part of really is when they start putting nationalistic principles and xenophobic attitudes above economic advantage, whilst effectively sitting back and expecting to be kept by the State to a greater or lesser extent.
Click to expand...
I loved this post until you said it was tongue in cheek. :(
 
kimajy said:
I'm British and live in UK (in case you hadn't worked it out by now) ... but I've lived abroad for well over 20 years in my life also. My comments relate to the culture that has developed in the UK over the years - if you can't see it yourself I am not going to try to explain. It is what ultimately makes me lose all hope of the country 'rallying to the challenge' and embracing personal sacrifice for the hypothetical long term good of the whole in respect of anything at all on a macro scale.

Taking full advantage of a no deal would require a huge drop in living standards in the short term for most, including freeing up tax revenues for large scale investment in government-subsidized infrastructure and innovation [instead of spending endless sums on benefits to keep people out of "poverty", educate their children and pay for all their healthcare], removal of workers' rights to allow a much more exploitative business culture, a move to increased self-sufficiency during the transition phase (as South Africa successfully managed to mitigate the impact of sanctions during the Apartheid years) with a view to creating an aggressively competitive export-focused economy with a global reach way more diverse than at present at the forefront of technological advancement.

There is no point being politically "free of Europe" only to adopt a similar or identical framework domestically and cut off the hands of business with fair and equitable working practices. You have to compete with the near-slavery conditions elsewhere after all. Most of the Cornish daffodil crop was left uncut this year because migrant workers wouldn't come to UK to pick them in the run up to 31st March. Had job centres been empowered to ship off jobseekers (or prisons their prisoners) into forced labour camps to do these jobs or else lose their benefits / have sentences increased that could have been avoided. Ideally the 'out of work' would have jumped at the chance to work for a pittance themselves "for the good of Britain".

Of course I am making points with my tongue firmly in my cheek to some extent. But there is a serious side to this and it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines here. "Entitled Britain" needs a massive wake-up call to understand how precarious the existence others risk their lives in boats to access even a small part of really is when they start putting nationalistic principles and xenophobic attitudes above economic advantage, whilst effectively sitting back and expecting to be kept by the State to a greater or lesser extent.
Click to expand...
Why would people choose to take a huge drop in living standards - not everyone in the UK is kept by the state ? To me it looks as if the people advocating for a no deal are the ones who wouldn't have to actually suffer the consequences. In fact, a lot of them would benefit from it. And to remove workers rights and emulate S Africa during Apartheid - really ? You're right, it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines
 
DarrenW said:
Why would people choose to take a huge drop in living standards - not everyone in the UK is kept by the state ? To me it looks as if the people advocating for a no deal are the ones who wouldn't have to actually suffer the consequences. In fact, a lot of them would benefit from it. And to remove workers rights and emulate S Africa during Apartheid - really ? You're right, it doesn't take a genius to read between the lines
Click to expand...

In order not to be ultimately governed by an unelected EU, as opposed to a domestic government that isn't elected by a majority in the absence of proportional representation. But hey, the EU isn't telling people what to do and they can always just protest for extra handouts to pay for the spiralling costs of netflix subscriptions and Deliveroo drops.

Far from the people advocating a no deal being those who wouldn't have to actually suffer the consequences, a great deal of them are people who are clueless as to the consequences they are likely to face, or believe the spin that those consequences will not arise, and buy into the bluster. In power, of course those with means (as with bankers) will always win out of adversity, further increasing inequality in the process.

South Africa responded to sanctions by domestically substituting imports. They even built Mercedes-Benz cars there because it was essential that Madam got to drive a new Mercedes whenever she wanted one. Mozzarella cheese was made locally to ensure you could still get an authentic tasting pizza, and foreign brand fashions were replicated meticulously. Those with means would hardly know day-to-day that anything was wrong - until they tried to travel abroad and take their money out. All but the wealthiest effectively became economically locked in behind their own borders, but it was a pretty comfortable home arrest for them.

TazLondon said:
I loved this post until you said it was tongue in cheek. :(
Click to expand...

I did also say "to some extent" ;)
 
kimajy said:
In order not to be ultimately governed by an unelected EU, as opposed to a domestic government that isn't elected by a majority in the absence of proportional representation. But hey, the EU isn't telling people what to do and they can always just protest for extra handouts to pay for the spiralling costs of netflix subscriptions and Deliveroo drops.

Far from the people advocating a no deal being those who wouldn't have to actually suffer the consequences, a great deal of them are people who are clueless as to the consequences they are likely to face, or believe the spin that those consequences will not arise, and buy into the bluster. In power, of course those with means (as with bankers) will always win out of adversity, further increasing inequality in the process.

South Africa responded to sanctions by domestically substituting imports. They even built Mercedes-Benz cars there because it was essential that Madam got to drive a new Mercedes whenever she wanted one. Mozzarella cheese was made locally to ensure you could still get an authentic tasting pizza, and foreign brand fashions were replicated meticulously. Those with means would hardly know day-to-day that anything was wrong - until they tried to travel abroad and take their money out. All but the wealthiest effectively became economically locked in behind their own borders, but it was a pretty comfortable home arrest for them.



I did also say "to some extent" ;)
Click to expand...
from Super Saturday London 2012 to talking about self imposed sanctions in 7 glorious years, gotta love the fking tories
 
Is this what you want?
 

Attachments

  • 67119022_2770904256271503_5419996346683752448_o.jpg
    67119022_2770904256271503_5419996346683752448_o.jpg
    147.3 KB · Views: 9
DarrenW said:
from Super Saturday London 2012 to talking about self imposed sanctions in 7 glorious years, gotta love the fking tories
Click to expand...

Despite my being pretty anti-capitalist in many ways, there has been a lot of sense in many of their policies over the years - given the Anglo-American fundamentals UK society seems intent on clinging onto.

However, the party has repeatedly managed to undermine and undo the positives, self-destruct and take some of the most poisonous decisions the country has seen for generations. It's like watching someone given everything set fire to it, just in order to see what actually happens (before running away). If Labour were remotely capable of achieving redistribution instead of thinking you can just keep living beyond your means and running up debts to make themselves popular they would be a credible party, but they can't - the pot just shrinks as you target the pockets of the wealthy meaning nowhere left to go apart from debt - the very trigger for downstream austerity for all.

It is back to the same thing - people already expect and demand WAY better living standards than this country can support for all, and that is before you factor in the impact of Brexit. The anti-immigration drive comes from a naive delusion that if you kick them all out there'll be more to feast on for those who are left, many of whom do not want to work for it.

The obvious solution to unaffordable living costs is very simple - just introduce rent caps then wages can also fall a bit without damaging disposable incomes for everyone who doesn't yet own their own home with a big mortgage. But nobody has the balls to do it because the negative equity that would result from a crash in property prices would cause economic disaster for so many families already in debt to banks who would have to take the hit. They all basically need to go bankrupt and start again with prices reset at a sensible level. One generation's sacrifice for the benefit of the the next ones. No frigging different to what we're all being expected to swallow to indulge Brexit is it !!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top