#Brexit

you voted out not them

they owe you jack-shit
If they took us seriously when Cameron announced the referendum then they probabley wouldn't be losing us. So they least they can do is owe the rest of Europe an apology for losing a great power in the UK.
 
If they took us seriously when Cameron announced the referendum then they probabley wouldn't be losing us. So they least they can do is owe the rest of Europe an apology for losing a great power in the UK.
At the end you will say it's EU fault if you leave? I am not sure to understand..
 
As I said before, the deal is the best one available given the red lines of May and the foundations of the EU. The EU will not allow the Good Friday agreement to be broken, and therefore the likely return of violence in Northern Ireland and will not offer us, or anyone else, as good a deal out of the EU as we would get within it. That's really not rocket science, nor is it the fault of the EU.

The backstop issue actually nicely exposes the lies being told by Brexiters who argue that it's not necessary because of some other mythical solution that they can't explain and that no-one's invented yet. However, the backstop is there only in case that no other solution is found so if the Brexiteers as so confident about their as-yet-to-be-invented solution then they have nothing to worry about. Of course, the reason they don't want the backstop is because there is no other solution, it's all unicorns and wishful thinking.
I'm not sure what point you're making here, but my understanding is that Britain expected the trade deals it had via the EU to simply be "rolled over" into new independent trade deals when it left. What's actually happening is countries are saying "Whoa there cowboy, why would we give you as good a deal as we've had to give the EU?". In other words, countries that we have very good trade deals with as a result of the collective bargaining power or the EU, are wanting those deals renegotiated now we're in a far weaker position. It again shows the abject stupidity and arrogance of these people to assume they could waltz over to Asia and expect countries over there to simply sign on the dotted line (and is also why they have managed to piss off the Chinese and the Japanese in quick succession).


So we'd be welcomed with open arms into a trade deal which never got ratified, is still being discussed and therefore doesn't actually exist? You couldn't come up with a better metaphor for Brexit!


There is a fundamental difference between saying Brexit wasn't the prime factor in something and "Brexit had nothing to do with...", as you know. I don't think I've seen any industry expert claim that these closures had nothing to do with Brexit, it is almost always mentioned as a primary or secondary factor. There are political and commercial reasons why Honda didn't blame Brexit for the closures but I don't believe the majority of experts think Brexit had nothing to do with it.
Its not arrogance to say that we are one of the biggest benefits to the EU, countries will know this and want our trade. We are tall enough to stand on our own two feet, if we was a two bob outfit like a few of the countries that make up the EU then I'd agree we'd be foolish to vote leave. The problem is the muppets in charge are doing a grand old job of messing it up.

We will probabley remain in the EU anyway so you should be happy, because not a chance a no deal will happen.
 
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At the end you will say it's EU fault if you leave? I am not sure to understand..
If the relationship with the EU was as good as it was with France & Germany and benefited us more than it did, then there wouldn't be a need to call a referendum.

Cameron & co called it and rightly so. But being totally delusion thinking we'd vote remain didn't have a plan B.

We got took for granted. And the 52% rightly so stuck two fingers up
 
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If the relationship with the EU was as good as it was with France & Germany then there was no need to call a referendum.
The public's relationship with the EU has been tainted by 30 odd year's worth of lies in the right wing press, which have then been used shamelessly by the proponents of Brexit to push their agenda. Part of the reason for the shocking public ignorance of the EU and its benefits is because the British Press and its billionaire owners have been so anti-EU.

Cameron called it, being totally delusion thinking we'd vote remain and move on.
We got took for granted. And the 52% rightly so stuck two fingers up
Finally we agree on something, even two things :)!

There's no doubt that the people have been screwed over and taken for granted, years of Tory austerity has crippled the UK and it's no surprise whatsoever that many people voted to change the status quo and I absolutely don't blame them for that. There surely has to be something wrong when, in one of the richest countries in the world, low paid workers are having to use food banks, tens of thousands are forced to work on zero hours contracts and a banker gets paid almost 100 times more than a nurse.

The thing I really can't understand though is how the very people responsible for inflicting this on people have managed to persuade a sizeable number of the population that is it's not their fault they're suffering but the fault of the EU and foreigners. How is it that people like Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Lord Digby-Jones, and all of the other titled and extremely wealthy individuals, have persuaded people that they aren't part of the problem when they are the very "elite" they claim to be standing against. I'm genuinely curious @Nostalgic what has made you think that these people have your best interests at heart and why you think a bunch of wealthy, non-dom, tax-dodgers will provide the solution?

I'm here making the case for remaining, not because I think the EU is some glorious institution without fault, but because I think you are being hoodwinked, I think you and people like you who voted Leave will suffer because of the lies you've been told because it isn't the EU or the foreigners who are making life miserable for millions in the UK, it's the very people pushing hardest for Brexit, the tax dodgers who don't want the EU tax laws tightened and the disaster capitalists who will make further millions from your misery. Who will you rail against when the British economy has been destroyed by an irreversible decision that was bought by a foreign power and pushed by the extreme right? I fear you and millions of others will find out too late and then I fear what might happen next :(
 
The public's relationship with the EU has been tainted by 30 odd year's worth of lies in the right wing press, which have then been used shamelessly by the proponents of Brexit to push their agenda. Part of the reason for the shocking public ignorance of the EU and its benefits is because the British Press and its billionaire owners have been so anti-EU.


Finally we agree on something, even two things :)!

There's no doubt that the people have been screwed over and taken for granted, years of Tory austerity has crippled the UK and it's no surprise whatsoever that many people voted to change the status quo and I absolutely don't blame them for that. There surely has to be something wrong when, in one of the richest countries in the world, low paid workers are having to use food banks, tens of thousands are forced to work on zero hours contracts and a banker gets paid almost 100 times more than a nurse.

The thing I really can't understand though is how the very people responsible for inflicting this on people have managed to persuade a sizeable number of the population that is it's not their fault they're suffering but the fault of the EU and foreigners. How is it that people like Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Lord Digby-Jones, and all of the other titled and extremely wealthy individuals, have persuaded people that they aren't part of the problem when they are the very "elite" they claim to be standing against. I'm genuinely curious @Nostalgic what has made you think that these people have your best interests at heart and why you think a bunch of wealthy, non-dom, tax-dodgers will provide the solution?

I'm here making the case for remaining, not because I think the EU is some glorious institution without fault, but because I think you are being hoodwinked, I think you and people like you who voted Leave will suffer because of the lies you've been told because it isn't the EU or the foreigners who are making life miserable for millions in the UK, it's the very people pushing hardest for Brexit, the tax dodgers who don't want the EU tax laws tightened and the disaster capitalists who will make further millions from your misery. Who will you rail against when the British economy has been destroyed by an irreversible decision that was bought by a foreign power and pushed by the extreme right? I fear you and millions of others will find out too late and then I fear what might happen next :(
We have signed a trade deal with Israel which replicates what Israel has with the EU. I don't see how this could be a problem with other countries outside the EU at doing similar deals?

I didn't vote leave based on what politicians said. I have seen the flaws of the free movement in the West Midlands but I also understand the benefit aswell.

The EU has expanded far to largely and the idea of having Turkey join worrys me.

I also disagree with the qualified majority voting rules, I read a report where and I quote "Britain is outvoted more often than any other country. Between 2009 and 2015, Britain was on the losing side of 12 per cent of QMV decisions. By contrast, France was on the losing side of less than 1 per cent of votes. The areas where Britain was most often outvoted included the EU budget and EU foreign and security policy."


I also don't like how the EU has a hold over our courts, when Britain joined the EEC in 1972, Parliament accepted that European law could have primacy over UK law. That law is ultimately overseen by the European Court of Justice

I also look forward to Britain being able to sign free trade deals and improve relations between our commonwealth nations and other major countries around the world.

As for the Irish border, surley we can manage something similar to this model?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/is-the-norway-sweden-border-a-model-for-uk-ireland/
 
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On twitter, from @Geoette_Spinne
I swear on my son this just happened. My wife (Sarah) on phone to her mum.
Sarah: "I need your marriage cert for my Irish passport."
Mum: "You won't need an Irish Passport."
Sarah: "Why?"
Mum: "Brexit won't happen. It'll be a no deal."

I'm hearing this wrong assumption/ignorance of reality over and over again; no deal = status quo
btw, anyone caught any of those subliminal facebook ads?
 

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Morning.
You (all) get to paticipate in European Central Banking system for the very low price of 6 billion. And the EU only have 10 trillion euros in debt. Could be worse.. US is about 22 trillion. UK should leave and take strict control of their own economy (debt) . But I think thats too hard and its easier to continue down the drain. No different in my country. Besides, the voters want a free lunch.
 
UK should leave and take strict control of their own economy (debt) .
It's the EU who imposes fiscal rules onto its members to have their budget deficit (and thus debt) under control, not vice versa. The UK has long been under fire from the EU exactly for exceeding the 3% of the GDP rule, and was only taken off the list of violators in 2017.

So without pressure from the EU to keep finances in order, expect more public spending and thus more debt, not less.

But anyway, thanks for providing great entertainment for us on the continent, I am looking forward to March 29 :p
 
So without pressure from the EU to keep finances in order, expect more public spending and thus more debt, not less.

Yeah because austerity has helped everyone out hasn't it. But hey let's continue funding projects like HS2 that's definitely for the less well off. Starting to see the real colour of people on here now.
 
Yeah because austerity has helped everyone out hasn't it.
It certainly helped Germany in the beginning of 2000s (and helped reduce unemployment, which also benefited those who are less well off).

Of course, if you don't like austerity, you are caught between a rock and a hard place now - the EU imposed some degree of austerity, but as evidenced by this thread, brexiters are going to take a strict control of the debt, which would mean even more austerity :)
 
so what do the brits on here think of the current situation? what will be the end game?

I've asked myself recently, if there was a second referendum (unlikely I know), would 'leave' still win it?
 
Talking as someone who voted to remain, probably similar to some Leave voters;
Anger, frustration, disappointment, embarrassment and confusion on the politicians.

I felt sick the morning we got the result (I’d gone to bed late when it looked like remain would win), maybe we should have put a % rule in for definitive result in the most ill conceived referendum but we should honour the result in my opinion. I’ve heard people confuse my opinion on radio/tv as a person who’s changed from remain to leave- not true, People voted- we need to get on with it.

There’s a deal, where we leave as requested, it’s a shit deal (never going to be better than current position) but some Brexiters will NEVER be happy. “This is not what we voted for”

I doubt the 2nd referendum would include remain...predicting the outcome? That didn’t go well last time. I feel we are more informed (how could we not be) but that might not Be enough to change entrenched positions.

I voted mainly thinking of finance and uncertainty.
 
so what do the brits on here think of the current situation? what will be the end game?

I've asked myself recently, if there was a second referendum (unlikely I know), would 'leave' still win it?

A Great British Farce.

Given up getting worried about it, what's the point? there is no clear direction, and no clear alternative for ALL sides.

Politics in the UK has turned very fractious, and leaderless. no f***er's stepping up and taking charge.

imo. Brexit prob won't happen.
 
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