Don Simon
Well-Known Member
It's got plenty to do with the shiny new trade deal Japan has just got with the EU, at the time that some people in Britain want to leave the EU.
#Brexit
- Thread starter Fronty
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Moondust
Active Member
New car sales have been plummeting for years now. Friends and family within the industry predicted this a long time ago. A shift to buying pre registered vehicles and a very strong lease market has has hurt new car sales dramatically. The governments misguided threat on Diesel emissions and the shift to hybrid/electric vehicles also has had a massive effect. The likes of Mercedes, BMW and JLR spent millions on cleaner diesel engines only for the public to now be to scared to purchase a second hand one let alone one brand new.
The face of the car market has been radically changing for years. We can blame Brexit uncertainty for numerous things but the car industry isn't one of them.
The face of the car market has been radically changing for years. We can blame Brexit uncertainty for numerous things but the car industry isn't one of them.
They have a deal, it is the best one available given Theresa May's idiotic red lines. The EU will not compromise the key pillars of the union, or peace in Northern Ireland, in order to appease May. It's not the fault of the EU that she negotiated a deal that she couldn't even get her own party to accept, let alone Parliament. It's a national embarrassment.
While this is largely true, to say that Brexit was not a consideration is just an exercise in denial. I wonder how many more companies will have to leave before Brexiters, with their fingers in their ears, can no longer sing loudly enough to pretend nothing is happening?
djedwardsmith
Active Member
Basically that.
The ground around them could literally be on fire and it would still be "Project Fear".
The ground around them could literally be on fire and it would still be "Project Fear".
Buckley
Well-Known Member
That would make perfect sense if demand had completely disappeared. But the cars are being produced, reduced in number, somewhere rather than here. To deny that Brexit is a factor, doesn't make sense.
Kim Wrong Un
Active Member
would you rather drink piss or eat shit?
what about those - possibly a majority - who would rather do neither?
yep - the excuses are already being lined up. Farage will blame 'negativity' for scaring away the horses..
Crawleytown
Active Member
As much as people might want it, a second referendum is logistically, politically and morally impossible. More chance of getting the kind of utopian Brexit that Rees Mogg and co dream of than a “people’s vote.”
Logistically is it entirely possible, the EU have already said they would allow an extension to Article 50 were there a significant political change in the UK (such as a referendum or general election).
Politically it would be more difficult because currently there is apparently no Parliamentary majority in support of it, but with both party leaders hard-core Brexiters it's hard to say what MPs would support in a free vote.
Morally it is absolutely the right thing to do. The original Leave campaign was illegally funded and both it and it's leaders are either currently being investigated for, or have already been convicted of, electoral fraud. There was very probably foreign interference and the Leave campaign was almost certainly substantially funded by Russia. None of the Leave campaigners campaigned on the prospectus we have now and neither did a single one of the prominent leavers suggest a hard Brexit, in fact, they specifically ruled this out. Now the consequences of Brexit, along with the specific types of Brexit on offer are far better understood, the only moral thing to do is put it back to the electorate.
CasaNegron
Well-Known Member
I tend to have heated discussions with people (in my case, about Trump), because people have made up their mind about the reasons why we are experiencing a populist wave globally and have assigned overly simplistic reason(s) for the change in political climate. In the case of Brexit (and Trump, LePenn, Five Star, Bolsonaro, Yellow Vest, etc), its easy to demonize supporters. With demonization any legitimate reasons for the energy behind this wave are discarded/ discounted.
My point is that discomfort, expressed as populism, is simply a canary in the coalmine. Real pain is being felt. Communities and whole nations are closing rank and the world is trending towards isolation for (perceived) protection. As an outsider, I was jealous of the (until recent) UK/EU situation. I would love to be able to move to a new country visa-free and start a business, however this freedom is not free and there are trade-offs. More importantly, the benefits/costs are this freedom are not equally shared by everyone.
I am a natural pessimist, reinforced by profession, so I like to look at the chart I saved on a monthly basis to remind myself where we are going. This is specific for the US, but I am sure that its trend would be consistent with many of the G7 and other developed economies.
Extra credit to anyone who can guess what happened in 1970.
In the US, I like to remind people that the same forces that elected Obama's 'Hope and Change' are the same that wants Trump to 'Make America Great Again'. For some weird reason people want to argue how it is different.
Good night, and good luck.
Rant off.
My point is that discomfort, expressed as populism, is simply a canary in the coalmine. Real pain is being felt. Communities and whole nations are closing rank and the world is trending towards isolation for (perceived) protection. As an outsider, I was jealous of the (until recent) UK/EU situation. I would love to be able to move to a new country visa-free and start a business, however this freedom is not free and there are trade-offs. More importantly, the benefits/costs are this freedom are not equally shared by everyone.
I am a natural pessimist, reinforced by profession, so I like to look at the chart I saved on a monthly basis to remind myself where we are going. This is specific for the US, but I am sure that its trend would be consistent with many of the G7 and other developed economies.
Extra credit to anyone who can guess what happened in 1970.
In the US, I like to remind people that the same forces that elected Obama's 'Hope and Change' are the same that wants Trump to 'Make America Great Again'. For some weird reason people want to argue how it is different.
Good night, and good luck.
Rant off.
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Moondust
Active Member
@Buckley @TimmiT
UK car sales have been at their lowest since 2008 and dealerships are taking a massive hit on the cars they have bought which cannot be returned to the manufacture. I was only at Mercedes a few months ago and the guy there told me they simply can't sell new cars anymore and its not a new thing. There could be many factors to be considered for that reason. Ii'm not denying Brexit 'could' be one of them, But lets be honest the Governments plan of a ban on combustible engines on UK roads by 2040 has had overwhelmingly detrimental effect on the UK car market. We and most other European countries are yet to embrace the push for electric vehicles with the exception of Norway.
Firstly cost was the major issue although prices are becoming far more reasonable. The government have already showed their hand in the panic to get the public to buy into this by offering grants to fund the switch to electric.
Secondly and for me the bigger issue is the UK infrastructure which clearly cannot support a total switch to electric vehicles. I dread to think the cost to the taxpayer that will incur. I drive to Cornwall from the midlands a few times a year. How long will that take to get there with 2 charging points at every service station. We are far from ready.
The point i was trying to make is who in the right mind would buy a new car right now? You certainly don't gamble on Diesel or Petrol or do you take the plunge on extreme cost of electric. From the points i have made is it any wonder that the likes of Honda have decided to close the Swindon plant. They make Honda Ciivic diesels which will soon be banned or do they make the switch to Electric manufacture which the public are yet to embrace in Europe. The crooks in parliament are far more at blame for that than the s**tstorm of Brexit.
I can assure you i am as worried as anyone else on this forum of the political mess the joke of a government has served us up. I have an Aunt and Uncle that have lived just outside Lisbon for over a decade. I worry for them. I have stepson who's family run 3 farms in Leicestershire and Devon whom i also worry for so i am far from any denial believe me.
UK car sales have been at their lowest since 2008 and dealerships are taking a massive hit on the cars they have bought which cannot be returned to the manufacture. I was only at Mercedes a few months ago and the guy there told me they simply can't sell new cars anymore and its not a new thing. There could be many factors to be considered for that reason. Ii'm not denying Brexit 'could' be one of them, But lets be honest the Governments plan of a ban on combustible engines on UK roads by 2040 has had overwhelmingly detrimental effect on the UK car market. We and most other European countries are yet to embrace the push for electric vehicles with the exception of Norway.
Firstly cost was the major issue although prices are becoming far more reasonable. The government have already showed their hand in the panic to get the public to buy into this by offering grants to fund the switch to electric.
Secondly and for me the bigger issue is the UK infrastructure which clearly cannot support a total switch to electric vehicles. I dread to think the cost to the taxpayer that will incur. I drive to Cornwall from the midlands a few times a year. How long will that take to get there with 2 charging points at every service station. We are far from ready.
The point i was trying to make is who in the right mind would buy a new car right now? You certainly don't gamble on Diesel or Petrol or do you take the plunge on extreme cost of electric. From the points i have made is it any wonder that the likes of Honda have decided to close the Swindon plant. They make Honda Ciivic diesels which will soon be banned or do they make the switch to Electric manufacture which the public are yet to embrace in Europe. The crooks in parliament are far more at blame for that than the s**tstorm of Brexit.
I can assure you i am as worried as anyone else on this forum of the political mess the joke of a government has served us up. I have an Aunt and Uncle that have lived just outside Lisbon for over a decade. I worry for them. I have stepson who's family run 3 farms in Leicestershire and Devon whom i also worry for so i am far from any denial believe me.
Nostalgic
No longer active
Whats stopping the UK getting a shiny new trade deal with Japan after Brexit day?
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...pan-south-korea-unlikely-brexit/#.XG2DlR6nw0M
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45780889
Its just typical that the people in the car industry are claiming its nothing to do with Brexit, yet folk on this topic are saying it is. Preach on about believing the experts yet at the same time contradict themselves by saying its just denial.
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Nostalgic
No longer active
Its the fault of the EU for not wanting to renegotiate the deal though. So they must be happy with said deal?
I've always said, having a remainer in charge of Brexit was always going to lead up to fail.
djedwardsmith
Active Member
Which experts have claimed it isn't to do with Brexit? Barry who inflates the tyres or John who fits the windshields?
As I said before, the deal is the best one available given the red lines of May and the foundations of the EU. The EU will not allow the Good Friday agreement to be broken, and therefore the likely return of violence in Northern Ireland and will not offer us, or anyone else, as good a deal out of the EU as we would get within it. That's really not rocket science, nor is it the fault of the EU.
The backstop issue actually nicely exposes the lies being told by Brexiters who argue that it's not necessary because of some other mythical solution that they can't explain and that no-one's invented yet. However, the backstop is there only in case that no other solution is found so if the Brexiteers as so confident about their as-yet-to-be-invented solution then they have nothing to worry about. Of course, the reason they don't want the backstop is because there is no other solution, it's all unicorns and wishful thinking.
I'm not sure what point you're making here, but my understanding is that Britain expected the trade deals it had via the EU to simply be "rolled over" into new independent trade deals when it left. What's actually happening is countries are saying "Whoa there cowboy, why would we give you as good a deal as we've had to give the EU?". In other words, countries that we have very good trade deals with as a result of the collective bargaining power or the EU, are wanting those deals renegotiated now we're in a far weaker position. It again shows the abject stupidity and arrogance of these people to assume they could waltz over to Asia and expect countries over there to simply sign on the dotted line (and is also why they have managed to piss off the Chinese and the Japanese in quick succession).
So we'd be welcomed with open arms into a trade deal which never got ratified, is still being discussed and therefore doesn't actually exist? You couldn't come up with a better metaphor for Brexit!
There is a fundamental difference between saying Brexit wasn't the prime factor in something and "Brexit had nothing to do with...", as you know. I don't think I've seen any industry expert claim that these closures had nothing to do with Brexit, it is almost always mentioned as a primary or secondary factor. There are political and commercial reasons why Honda didn't blame Brexit for the closures but I don't believe the majority of experts think Brexit had nothing to do with it.
Kim Wrong Un
Active Member
mashednlovingit
Well-Known Member
'given the red lines of May'
I think you'll find the 4 pillars of the EU are the real red lines here. Bizarre that anything that critiques this institution is quickly shut down. All sides should be open to criticism.
I think you'll find the 4 pillars of the EU are the real red lines here. Bizarre that anything that critiques this institution is quickly shut down. All sides should be open to criticism.
Had you quoted my post properly, you'd have noticed the very next words were "given the red lines of May and the foundations of the EU...".
Why would you think that any institution or organisation should change their constitution in order to suit the interests of one its members who has decided to leave? It's frankly bizarre.
Who is shutting down debate and in what way?