The building formerly known as Space --> HÏ Ibiza

white_isle_calling said:
I don't know what some of you guys want. I don't even think you do!! So you acknowledge that there are still underground parties - albeit small clutters - but then throw gems out like "the island doesn't support these parties"

Please can you clarify what you mean by that?? Do you mean they need more exposure??? Seems like that's exactly what you don't want from all your harping on the past few pages!!

Yes. There are still underground parties to be found. Many of them are free/cheap. You've just got to know where to look. You've got to know the right people. You have to work for them. Are those such bad things to have to do? If they filter out the VIPs and the kids you so vehemently hate, surely that's a bonus, no?

The very fact that they still exist is proof enough that the spirit of Ibiza is alive. No, it ain't in Pacha. Or Hi. Or the West End. So don't go to those places and stick to your super, uber, underground parties.

Btw, your gripe isn't with Ibiza, per se. Your gripe is with modern life. I have no doubt that you genuinely believe it was better 20 years ago. I'm sure in many cases - maybe even all - it actually was. But what solution are your putting forward? Or are you just on a soapbox? I'm under no disillusion that I will be the same myself in 10/20 years "it was better back in my day, blah, blah, blah" (see every generation since day dot!)

You just sound like a bunch of whinging old men. Maybe you have a valid point. But personally, I couldn't give a shit because you depress the life out of me. Tell me stories of how great it was back in the day, by all means. I will enjoy reading about them. Those that have already - it sounds amazing! Keep them coming! But I don't want to be told how my generation has ruined things for the older generation because as the saying goes: who is responsible for the younger generation?!?!?! o_O

If you dislike it that much, f*** off to Croatia. I'm sure it's loaaaaaaaaaaaads better there(!) Yawn.
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I remember the good old days when people didn't get so aggressive when they were getting their point across.
 
white_isle_calling said:
I don't know what some of you guys want. I don't even think you do!! So you acknowledge that there are still underground parties - albeit small clutters - but then throw gems out like "the island doesn't support these parties"

Please can you clarify what you mean by that?? Do you mean they need more exposure??? Seems like that's exactly what you don't want from all your harping on the past few pages!!

Yes. There are still underground parties to be found. Many of them are free/cheap. You've just got to know where to look. You've got to know the right people. You have to work for them. Are those such bad things to have to do? If they filter out the VIPs and the kids you so vehemently hate, surely that's a bonus, no?

The very fact that they still exist is proof enough that the spirit of Ibiza is alive. No, it ain't in Pacha. Or Hi. Or the West End. So don't go to those places and stick to your super, uber, underground parties.

Btw, your gripe isn't with Ibiza, per se. Your gripe is with modern life. I have no doubt that you genuinely believe it was better 20 years ago. I'm sure in many cases - maybe even all - it actually was. But what solution are your putting forward? Or are you just on a soapbox? I'm under no disillusion that I will be the same myself in 10/20 years "it was better back in my day, blah, blah, blah" (see every generation since day dot!)

You just sound like a bunch of whinging old men. Maybe you have a valid point. But personally, I couldn't give a shit because you depress the life out of me. Tell me stories of how great it was back in the day, by all means. I will enjoy reading about them. Those that have already - it sounds amazing! Keep them coming! But I don't want to be told how my generation has ruined things for the older generation because as the saying goes: who is responsible for the younger generation?!?!?! o_O

If you dislike it that much, f*** off to Croatia. I'm sure it's loaaaaaaaaaaaads better there(!) Yawn.
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OK, you'll inevitably get loads of likes for this but I'm going to take issue with some points (I agree with some parts btw - the 'modern life' point is probably accurate but that's another debate)

1. in your heart, do you really believe the island is heading in the right direction? really? the corrupt politics? over saturation of tourism? environmental destruction? greedy VIP industry? proliferation of roiders? bling? terrible pissed/coked up English? Yes many of these issues aren't new - but they aren't getting better..

2. do you really think critics/cynics/nostalgists should shut up and eff off to Croatia? - is that what it has to come to? dissenters no longer welcome on the island - isn't that a bit fascist?

3. do you not think that a forum like this is a useful gauge of where things are at? are we all supposed to keep quiet and suck corporate cock? or use forums like this to lobby for the right kind of change?

4. is it not right that a body of people in their 40s/50s who still enjoy clubbing and good music should want to be represented too? the grumbling is really about that

5. finally, contrary to what you might think i'm very much about the here and now, which is why I still somehow care and the tragedy is IBZ could be so, so much better because parties in other countries have proved how clubbing is still about the music and the people and not about the money. there is currently a massive backlash in mainland Spain against bullshit tourism and bullshit music and I hope that reaches IBZ too.
 
Amp and Deck said:
1. in your heart, do you really believe the island is heading in the right direction? really? the corrupt politics? over saturation of tourism? environmental destruction? greedy VIP industry? proliferation of roiders? bling? terrible pissed/coked up English? Yes many of these issues aren't new - but they aren't getting better..
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No. I don't think anybody could argue that these are good things. But here we are.

Amp and Deck said:
2. do you really think critics/cynics/nostalgists should shut up and eff off to Croatia? - is that what it has to come to? dissenters no longer welcome on the island - isn't that a bit fascist?
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No. I definitely didn't mean it. It was joke. Aimed at those ppl who sprout on about how much better Croatia is than Ibiza. I've been to Croatia. It was pretty f***in' average. Crap drugs and full of petulant kids (see, I'm old too. It's all relative.). Only difference is I didn't harp on about it, I merely protested by not returning and not spending anymore money there. (And I didn't visit a Croatia forum to tell them how shit it all was)

Amp and Deck said:
3. do you not think that a forum like this is a useful gauge of where things are at? are we all supposed to keep quiet and suck corporate cock? or use forums like this to lobby for the right kind of change?
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Aye. Indeed it is.

But I've not seen one decent, constructive solution been put forward. Maybe the odd pie in the sky type of stuff. Well we can all make wacky, unimplementable suggestions, but since that's futile, why not support these true underground parties that exist in the best way that we can ie. by attending them, but shielding their existence from the wider public. Spending money there, but voting with our feet if they ever get too expensive. etc. <<< those are just a couple of ideas off the top of my head in the five minutes since your reply. See. Look at what can be achieved when you're not unnecessarily losing your temper.

Amp and Deck said:
4. is it not right that a body of people in their 40s/50s who still enjoy clubbing and good music should want to be represented too? the grumbling is really about that
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There's plenty of people in their 40s and 50s (and 60s, 70s, 80s...) who still enjoy Ibiza now. You're just not one of them.

Amp and Deck said:
5. finally, contrary to what you might think i'm very much about the here and now, which is why I still somehow care and the tragedy is IBZ could be so, so much better because parties in other countries have proved how clubbing is still about the music and the people and not about the money. there is currently a massive backlash in mainland Spain against bullshit tourism and bullshit music and I hope that reaches IBZ too.
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It is actually good to see you so passionate. But surely if your wealth of age and experience has taught you anything, it's that shouting down the younger generation and telling them that they're doing it all wrong will get you f***in' nowhere. You know this. I know you do.

So engage with them. Regale them with stories of old. Show them the light. But don't talk down to them. It won't work.
 
@white_isle_calling that's the spirit you little mug!

white_isle_calling said:
If you dislike it that much, f*** off to Croatia. I'm sure it's loaaaaaaaaaaaads better there(!)
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Why don't you f*** off there and start something new that you can look back on when your older,instead of living off the back of what the older generation put in front off you...

white_isle_calling said:
But I don't want to be told how my generation has ruined things for the older generation because as the saying goes: who is responsible for the younger generation?!?!?! o_O
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You are not really ruining things for us,you're ruining them for yourself. 50s ,60s,70s,80s,90s,........the youth brought somthing to the table,that's where you look for the creativity. At the end of the 90s the baton was handed over to the next generation, and instead of running with it,you little pricks dropped it,and left it on the floor.
 
The1likejose said:
You are not really ruining things for us,you're ruining them for yourself. 50s ,60s,70s,80s,90s,........the youth brought somthing to the table,that's where you look for the creativity. At the end of the 90s the baton was handed over to the next generation, and instead of running with it,you little pricks dropped it,and left it on the floor.
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You sound like your father. (and his father. and his father....) And so it continues...
 
Ibiza i always thought was a magnet for people to avoid the mainstream. I have been going for 28 years including this years visit. I and a lot of you guys have seen plenty of change over the years. The majority of change has been good and welcomed. Its obvious by the size of this thread and the talk life outside of spotlight the direction of Ibiza is taking causes concern. This isn't whinging old men, this is people with a passion for what Ibiza was. Those people have invested one of life's most important commodities..Time.

Therefore their opinions matter. Does everyone really want too see Ibiza be renowned for a commercial dance scene? Does it not matter the it loses its Balearic vibe? Shouldn't small events that go against the grain be supported and not closed down? Year on year i plan to catch a small event and when i get there its been stopped. Extravagance and VIP has always been in Ibiza, at least since i have been going but the Small gigs, the real gigs , with the real Ibiza lovers are always cut.

There is much more to Ibiza than clubbing,its a beautiful island and thankfully that's how i go about my trips but i and a lot other people couldn't give a flying f*** about Ushuaia and what they plan to do and/or anything else along those lines.

"don't go then!! F**k off somewhere else" i hear them cry.. "

"fair enough" i say all i ask is don't take the Alternatives away from us.. simple
 
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Amp and Deck said:
people trying to turn this into "me v the kids" - it's not like that at all.

my gripe is with the organ grinder not the monkeys
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Same as that really. It just so annoying when so many are so vociferous in their support for places like ushuaia and obc. When it's these places that are going to eventually destroy the ibiza. You don't see me moan about any other places on here really. I have also stated not spending money in those places.
 
Moondust said:
There is much more to Ibiza than clubbing,its a beautiful island and thankfully that's how i go about my trips but i and a lot other people couldn't give a flying f*** about Ushuaia and what they plan to do and/or anything else along those lines.
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Agreed.

Moondust said:
"don't go then!! F**k off somewhere else" i hear them cry.. "

"fair enough" i say all i ask is don't take the Alternatives away from us.. simple
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"When their enemies were at the gates, the Romans would suspend democracy and appoint one man to protect the city. It wasn't considered an honor. It was considered a public service."

"The last man who they appointed to protect the Republic was named Caesar and he never relinquished his power."

"Okay, fine. Then either you die a hero. Or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
 
Moondust said:
Ibiza i always thought was a magnet for people to avoid the mainstream. I have been going for 28 years including this years visit. I and a lot of you guys have seen plenty of change over the years. The majority of change has been good and welcomed. Its obvious by the size of this thread and the talk life outside of spotlight the direction of Ibiza is taking causes concern. This isn't whinging old men, this is people with a passion for what Ibiza was. Those people have invested one of life's most important commodities..Time.

Therefore their opinions matter. Does everyone really want too see Ibiza be renowned for a commercial dance scene? Does it not matter the it loses its Balearic vibe? Shouldn't small events that go against the grain be supported and not closed down? Year on year i plan to catch a small event and when i get there its been stopped. Extravagance and VIP has always been in Ibiza, at least since i have been going but the Small gigs, the real gigs , with the real Ibiza lovers are always cut.

There is much more to Ibiza than clubbing,its a beautiful island and thankfully that's how i go about my trips but i and a lot other people couldn't give a flying f*** about Ushuaia and what they plan to do and/or anything else along those lines.

"don't go then!! F**k off somewhere else" i hear them cry.. "

"fair enough" i say all i ask is don't take the Alternatives away from us.. simple
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Great post,my sentiments exactly!

f***ing little prick telling us to go to Croatia.
 
The1likejose said:
Same as that really. It just so annoying when so many are so vociferous in their support for places like ushuaia and obc. When it's these places that are going to eventually destroy the ibiza. You don't see me moan about any other places on here really. I have also stated not spending money in those places.
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That's just it, Jose. I'm no fan of Ushuaia. And I agree that VIP culture is a beast which has mutated out of control.

But when you use the rhetoric "it was better back in my day" repeatedly, when loads of people younger than you still love it, then it's you who makes it inter-generational. Whether you intend to or not. It's just requires more tact. More understanding. Nobody is questioning your passion, or even saying you shouldn't be passionate.

You need to drop the Croatia thing now. That comment was aimed squarely at the ppl who exist on this forum who said that "Croatia is better than Ibiza".

Unless you've posted that, it doesn't apply to you.
 
white_isle_calling said:
But when you use the rhetoric "it was better back in my day" repeatedly
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I don't think I have ever said that repeatedly on this forum,i could be wrong though? But it is still my day,not just yours. I have never said Croatia is better,so maybe I'll drop it. I've never been,although my mum and dad do go quite a lot..they also still, go to Ibiza. I don't think many of the oldens champion Croatia on here. But the yoot love ushuaia...great for pic aye?
 
The1likejose said:
But the yoot love ushuaia...great for pic aye?
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They do. And it is symptomatic of their modern environment - technology, social media, instant gratification, materialism, commercialism etc, etc. So what we need to do - as conservationists, if you will - is guide them in the best direction we can. Some of them won't follow. Most, probably won't. But some will. And they'll pass it on too.

And if it's popular enough, it survives. If not... well, if not, we won't be around to lament it. And life goes on.
 
white_isle_calling said:
They do. And it is symptomatic of their modern environment - technology, social media, instant gratification, materialism, commercialism etc, etc. So what we need to do - as conservationists, if you will - is guide them in the best direction we can. Some of them won't follow. Most, probably won't. But some will. And they'll pass it on too.

And if it's popular enough, it survives. If not... well, if not, we won't be around to lament it. And life goes on.
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I guided my 17 year old daughter to amnesia last year.. yes,there is still a lot of hard work to be done though...:lol:
 
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