neilly303
Active Member
It's hard house with all the best parts taken out.
I didn't know there were good parts in hard house!
Terrible terrible music
- Thread starter jaycranney
- Start date
I didn't know there were good parts in hard house!
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
I didn't know there were good parts in hard house!
It's an acquired taste
... took about 3 years before I got it. Aggressive but with a good flow, good clean rhythm. With hardstyle you totally lose that sense of flow. The beats stab and bounce and the basslines are horrible.
hauskitten
No longer active
I used to like hard house when I was 21 ... same time as when I liked trance lol, and as much as I don't like them now there maybe 1 tune that I would like (I literally mean 1 though)
Hardstyle however its just so horrible I couldn't even describe it .. I want to use the word morbid but I'm reluctant because sometimes I describe some freaky minimal as morbid but in a good way... if you can see what I mean hardstyle is morbid in a bad way.. I don't know how people can feel anything while listening to it, its like living next to a train track could you dance every time you heard that train lol
Hardstyle however its just so horrible I couldn't even describe it .. I want to use the word morbid but I'm reluctant because sometimes I describe some freaky minimal as morbid but in a good way... if you can see what I mean hardstyle is morbid in a bad way.. I don't know how people can feel anything while listening to it, its like living next to a train track could you dance every time you heard that train lol
you make some interesting points and I kinda sympathise with the argument that the underground needs something to kick back against
whilst the "live and let live" argument is all well and good, it does however stifle debate and I feel it IS important to educate young people about the roots of music and why it matters especially now mainstream radio has all but given up on quality music.
To give an example... I saw Dixon rock the secret sundaze party in the beautiful open air la terraza courtyard in Barcelona last night and it was a sheer DJing masterclass by one of the best in the world. Ok, he's not Clausell going ape on the Eqs - you're not gonna experience major drama but he's more subtle and lets the music do the talking.
mixing up classic phuture/adonis with upfront pressure from kalabrese and henrik schwarz. Unreal. Now not everyone (esp on here) will get or like his style but at least there is no dishonesty, no cheap laurent garnier ripoffs, no stupid posturing to the crowd, no crap U2 moments at the end, no naffness or cheese just PROPER HOUSE as it should be and I think pretty much everyone on that mountain top agreed.
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hauskitten
No longer active
Lmao what would the "underground Posers" as you call them say if they got hold of my i-pod... confusing and weird sounds like an alien invasion Ricardo Villalobos album or... or Wham club Tropicana drinks are freeeeeee......
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
I actually agree with you to a large extent, Olly. Why should we sit back and allow the herd to be consistently brainwashed into listening to soulless, banal music?
I believe that if a person genuinely loves 80-90% of the music they hear on daytime Radio One and genuinely trust in the sincerity of the presenters and playlist compilers, then that person has probably sold his soul to Satan. The more the herd is left to its own devices the more it is subject to the whims of radio stations and music journalists, and the more music becomes, in their minds, this tiny speck in the ocean populated only by "obvious" dance acts, British rappers/whiney, emo American R'n'B "sensations" with barely a musical bone in their bodies and painfully ordinary indie acts who write a couple of average songs and ride on that for months.
As hypocritical as this sounds, I think that sort of snobbery is sort of within reason... But that snobbery doesn't come from an underlying hatred for any particular genre or for all that is "mainstream" per se. It's about hating the inability of certain people to listen independently, think for themselves and develop a sense of individuality. The underground mentality, on the other hand, takes that individuality to the nth degree.
The thing that specifically riles me is that those of us who sit in the middle ground between the mainstream herd and the "scene elites" are forced to feel as though we are members of the uneducated herd. For example, for the EDM listeners amongst us, it doesn't matter if we listen to Villalobos or Gui Boratto, if we have even a vague appreciation for Tiesto... you're in with the herd. It's no good listening to Logistics or Concord Dawn... if you listen to Pendulum... in with the herd. If you're caught listening to DJ Gius' radio friendly version of Kernkraft 400, it's assumed you haven't educated yourself enough to know of Absorber or Black Toys... in with the herd. And as soon as the Radio One brigade latches onto something we were listening to 18 months, 2 years ago, we're expected to abandon it and write it off as **** music... And if we carry on listening to it, it's assumed we only started listening to it when the herd did. It's that sort of mentality that annoys me. That sort of "all or nothing" attitude that the purists of any scene carry around with them.
Simply put, some people are just either poorly educated or not passionate enough about music to get clued up... some of us are just the open-minded people I describe in my post above. I suppose, I wish the music listening population wasn't so polarised.
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hauskitten
No longer active
Some people just like pop music... get over it
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
Some people just like pop music... get over it
If I've over-complicated the debate at all, I think you have successfully over-simplified it.
hauskitten
No longer active
If I've over-complicated the debate at all, I think you have successfully over-simplified it.
Good coz its one hell of an anal debate lol
well actually it's an EXTREMELY serious issue
because decent nights I know and have been involved in and where people have put a lot of heart and energy into are folding because greedy non-music bar owners won't put the patience into supporting underground nights - they increasingly want big crowds and instant bucks and that isn't always feasible when music is less known and crowds want recognisable hits.
if the underground isn't supported, scenes die, and so does exposure to them.
Greg Wilson made a really good point recently that there ARE kids who DO go to his gigs on his many tours around the country and LIKE his music but are given almost zero exposure to it in the mass media elsewhere. If you're outside London or a handful of other UK cities, it is really hard to discover new music. To browse, you need to know what you're looking for. Not everyone can/will do that.
Greg Wilson's comments caused a bit of a stir because it divided the headz down the middle. You have group A who want to keep it as obscure as possible, to keep it pure, to keep out the hed kandi kuntz, to keep it a tight-knit family, into middle-age and you have group B who DO want to open it up but on their terms and whilst obv not wanting to see it sold out to the ministry of satan, are pragmatic enough to realise that scenes will die without resources and numbers and youth..
it's that age-old chestnut which affects every micro-scene in rock and dance music alike at some point but no less valid now. I envy people who can rise above it all and have no problem with what people listen to (despite the rants) My issue is with the capitalist system constantly interfering with the arts and compromising people's souls. Hippy 5h1t? Perhaps but it's true today as ever. Channel 4 and BBC 2 are protected despite getting minimal audiences - I (yes, selfishly) feel the same should apply to the music I love...
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
well actually it's an EXTREMELY serious issue
because decent nights I know and have been involved in and where people have put a lot of heart and energy into are folding because greedy non-music bar owners won't put the patience into supporting underground nights - they increasingly want big crowds and instant bucks and that isn't always feasible when music is less known and crowds want recognisable hits.
if the underground isn't supported, scenes die, and so does exposure to them.
Greg Wilson made a really good point recently that there ARE kids who DO go to his gigs on his many tours around the country and LIKE his music but are given almost zero exposure to it in the mass media elsewhere. If you're outside London or a handful of other UK cities, it is really hard to discover new music. To browse, you need to know what you're looking for. Not everyone can/will do that.
Greg Wilson's comments caused a bit of a stir because it divided the headz down the middle. You have group A who want to keep it as obscure as possible, to keep it pure, to keep out the hed kandi kuntz, to keep it a tight-knit family, into middle-age and you have group B who DO want to open it up but on their terms and whilst obv not wanting to see it sold out to the ministry of satan, are pragmatic enough to realise that scenes will die without resources and numbers and youth..
it's that age-old chestnut which affects every micro-scene in rock and dance music alike at some point but no less valid now. I envy people who can rise above it all and have no problem with what people listen to (despite the rants) My issue is with the capitalist system constantly interfering with the arts and compromising people's souls. Hippy 5h1t? Perhaps but it's true today as ever. Channel 4 and BBC 2 are protected despite getting minimal audiences - I (yes, selfishly) feel the same should apply to the music I love...
You have it spot on, Olly. And that goes back to a point I touched on earlier... The underground has to accept that there have to be bridge artists... artists which encapsulate something that is unqiue about the scene they sit on the edge of, but at the same time are accessible enough to break the masses in gently. Trance fans whinge about Tiesto and Armin, but without them and that extra edge of accessibility they bring, trance would shrink and maybe die. Trance hitting the mainstream like it did in the late 90s is what pulled me in the first place. I would probably not be listening to any electronic music 11-12 years later without that exposure. I'm sure you could quote similar examples for house, Olly - or at least better examples than I could.
I just wish people would use their own initiative sometimes... I have a mate who mainly listens to indie...all the usual suspects. The only dance he listens to? Tiesto, Calvin Harris and Pendulum. But he doesn't follow up on those artists...He doesn't use those artists as a starting point to discovering more trance, more house or more drum & bass. A lot of my mates are starting to discover Infected Mushroom... but will that lead them into discovering more psy-trance? You know it won't. Not on their own anyway. And the same is applicable to so many genres.
And you're right, Olly. The professional media has such an important role to play, yet does such a bad job of doing it what its there to do. And somewhere between those two groups you talk about there is a happy medium for most non-mainstream scenes, particularly with the media the way it is - because not everyone is in it purely for the love of music and not everyone will think for themselves.
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Padster
Active Member
Bristol seems to be moving in the right direction with the re-opening of The Depot which used to be the fore-most underground venue there. Expect psy-trance, tech-trance, dirty house and much more there. One person I will mention is John '00' Fleming who has frequently called upon big-name DJ's to support the smaller club nights and then point-blank refused to play at my friends' smaller night even though they had enough to pay his asking price for his set. MAJOR HYPOCRITE. Even if I was running a major night I wouldn't book that **** head now.well actually it's an EXTREMELY serious issue
because decent nights I know and have been involved in and where people have put a lot of heart and energy into are folding because greedy non-music bar owners won't put the patience into supporting underground nights - they increasingly want big crowds and instant bucks and that isn't always feasible when music is less known and crowds want recognisable hits.
if the underground isn't supported, scenes die, and so does exposure to them.
Greg Wilson made a really good point recently that there ARE kids who DO go to his gigs on his many tours around the country and LIKE his music but are given almost zero exposure to it in the mass media elsewhere. If you're outside London or a handful of other UK cities, it is really hard to discover new music. To browse, you need to know what you're looking for. Not everyone can/will do that.
Greg Wilson's comments caused a bit of a stir because it divided the headz down the middle. You have group A who want to keep it as obscure as possible, to keep it pure, to keep out the hed kandi kuntz, to keep it a tight-knit family, into middle-age and you have group B who DO want to open it up but on their terms and whilst obv not wanting to see it sold out to the ministry of satan, are pragmatic enough to realise that scenes will die without resources and numbers and youth..
it's that age-old chestnut which affects every micro-scene in rock and dance music alike at some point but no less valid now. I envy people who can rise above it all and have no problem with what people listen to (despite the rants) My issue is with the capitalist system constantly interfering with the arts and compromising people's souls. Hippy 5h1t? Perhaps but it's true today as ever. Channel 4 and BBC 2 are protected despite getting minimal audiences - I (yes, selfishly) feel the same should apply to the music I love...
hauskitten
No longer active
Underground scenes are just that because most people choose to like mainstream music and that is the beauty of the underground scene... and its nothing to do with being forced to like something... almost everyone who gets in my car asks me to 'turn this s*** music off' 'what is this crap' 'there arent even any words' 'you'd have to be on drugs to listen to this'
would you really want to go to a techno night in one of them Oceana or Syndicate night clubs?? Coz personally I prefer them skanky little gems which hold a few hundred that ONLY people who are genuinely into it will go to, then you know the atmosphere is gonna be amazing in every square inch of the place...
I'm sorry but some people (not pointing any fingers here) just take a particular type of music (it seems to be have been techno the last couple of years) and just like it cos they think its 8) then they scour the internet looking for definitions, finding out the names of tunes, getting information in words and not enough time listening to it or dancing to it and having fun
I do agree with you though that the people that don't like the music I like are bell ends who need to get a life
would you really want to go to a techno night in one of them Oceana or Syndicate night clubs?? Coz personally I prefer them skanky little gems which hold a few hundred that ONLY people who are genuinely into it will go to, then you know the atmosphere is gonna be amazing in every square inch of the place...
I'm sorry but some people (not pointing any fingers here) just take a particular type of music (it seems to be have been techno the last couple of years) and just like it cos they think its 8) then they scour the internet looking for definitions, finding out the names of tunes, getting information in words and not enough time listening to it or dancing to it and having fun
I do agree with you though that the people that don't like the music I like are bell ends who need to get a life
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hauskitten
No longer active
Bristol seems to be moving in the right direction with the re-opening of The Depot which used to be the fore-most underground venue there. Expect psy-trance, tech-trance, dirty house and much more there. One person I will mention is John '00' Fleming who has frequently called upon big-name DJ's to support the smaller club nights and then point-blank refused to play at my friends' smaller night even though they had enough to pay his asking price for his set. MAJOR HYPOCRITE. Even if I was running a major night I wouldn't book that **** head now.
This I agree with..
some friends of mine started a night and got Fergie in ...as it was a new night in a place not many knew about only about 50 people turned up, however Fergie gave it his all still and had everyone bouncing off the ceiling. He was there an hour before his set and could see it was empty but he constantly had a smile on his face..respect to Fergie 8)
Bristol seems to be moving in the right direction with the re-opening of The Depot which used to be the fore-most underground venue there. Expect psy-trance, tech-trance, dirty house and much more there. One person I will mention is John '00' Fleming who has frequently called upon big-name DJ's to support the smaller club nights and then point-blank refused to play at my friends' smaller night even though they had enough to pay his asking price for his set. MAJOR HYPOCRITE. Even if I was running a major night I wouldn't book that **** head now.
The Depot reopened?
I used to love that place! Went to a few Brainstorm parties there (old Universe lot).
Has it got a website?
(not that I ever get to Brizzle any more)
Underground IS mainstream music. There is simply no divide anymore because now you can hear 'underground' music on the radio and everywhere else AND underground artists can make it mainstream and mainstream artists can make it underground (with the power of remixes etc)
The debate is always the same and people always blame the venue owners for not having the patience with 'underground music', but remember whose hard earned money you are toying with.
It's a completely over glamourised, fake, pretentious scene on ALL parts. Everyone is just face and everyone will say all the right things to make their ugly 'underground' mugs more mainstream. The problem is the patrons and or punters. THEY'RE the ones not giving the underground nights a fair go. They're the ones walking in saying "this is ****" because it's different to their niche. When a club owner see's that, of course he's gonna wanna change his game. And it's **** Dj's as well who have their ****ing heads up their asses who are all too philosophical and 'moral' to play a song they DON'T like. Never mind that everyone else might like it.. If your not gonna play music people like your a **** Dj. Your not there to entertain YOURSELF, your there to entertain the people on the floor and if you gotta play a song you hear every night then ****ing play it instead of sooking about how crap it is and maybe the crowd will like you and more people will see you play and wanna hug your undies.
Everyone has just become so self indulged. So turned inwards. Thats why everything sounds ****. No one does anything for anyone elses enjoyment anymore, they do it for their own.
The debate is always the same and people always blame the venue owners for not having the patience with 'underground music', but remember whose hard earned money you are toying with.
It's a completely over glamourised, fake, pretentious scene on ALL parts. Everyone is just face and everyone will say all the right things to make their ugly 'underground' mugs more mainstream. The problem is the patrons and or punters. THEY'RE the ones not giving the underground nights a fair go. They're the ones walking in saying "this is ****" because it's different to their niche. When a club owner see's that, of course he's gonna wanna change his game. And it's **** Dj's as well who have their ****ing heads up their asses who are all too philosophical and 'moral' to play a song they DON'T like. Never mind that everyone else might like it.. If your not gonna play music people like your a **** Dj. Your not there to entertain YOURSELF, your there to entertain the people on the floor and if you gotta play a song you hear every night then ****ing play it instead of sooking about how crap it is and maybe the crowd will like you and more people will see you play and wanna hug your undies.
Everyone has just become so self indulged. So turned inwards. Thats why everything sounds ****. No one does anything for anyone elses enjoyment anymore, they do it for their own.
Ancient People
Active Member
Padster
Active Member
Bugger- looks like I spoke too soon. I sent an email to DJ Pod who was heavily involved with The Depot before it closed, and got this reply:The Depot reopened?
I used to love that place! Went to a few Brainstorm parties there (old Universe lot).
Has it got a website?
(not that I ever get to Brizzle any more)
"The Depot was to finally re-open its doors at the end of April (then it was May...then September). Work had been going on to expand the venue and huge improvements were planned. Unfortunately the licensing authorities rejected the application on several grounds and the cost of putting these things right, coupled with the legal fees (with no firm guarantee of a license being granted at the end of the process) have made the project financially unviable. In the meantime, as the search continues for a suitable medium sized, multi-room, underground venue, we’ve got to make the most of what’s available."
I