Manchester bomb...

JoshMags said:
It's not going to be any random door is it though? Surely if you are on a terrorist watch list; you have displayed behavior or have links which warrant you being on there?
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The guy who carried out this attack was known to the security services. The police/govt don't need any more powers. They arguably have too many already (Snooper's Charter anyone?). They just need to use the powers they have better, or add more resources (the Tories have cut police numbers by the tens of thousands IIRC over the past few years).
 
stepotts said:
i'm sure he's totally innocent and a really nice guy......
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when was the last time a football hooligan blew anyone up, must of missed that one? More to the point....there are stricter laws for football hooligans than it is for people on the terror watchlist.

For this scum to be allowed back into the country after travelling to Libya just sums up the whole mess of the current situation.
 
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BEEFA1 said:
He hasn't blown up anyone up though, More to the point....there are stricter laws for football hooligans than it is for people on the terror watchlist.

For this scum to be allowed back into the country after travelling to Libya just sums up the whole mess of the current situation.
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i agree with what your saying about the guy coming back from another country, some serious issues need to be dealt with on that side of things. However I've got no time for football hooligans and this guy seems to believe he's an innocent party, which I find hard to believe. These people take up valuable police resources for no other reason than they are brainless morons obsessed with having a fight on a Saturday afternoon. The police are stretched to breaking point as it is, and having to deal with these neanderthals on a weekly basis is helping no one. They need to F off back to the Seventies where they belong.
 
stepotts said:
i agree with what your saying about the guy coming back from another country, some serious issues need to be dealt with on that side of things. However I've got no time for football hooligans and this guy seems to believe he's an innocent party, which I find hard to believe. These people take up valuable police resources for no other reason than they are brainless morons obsessed with having a fight on a Saturday afternoon. The police are stretched to breaking point as it is, and having to deal with these neanderthals on a weekly basis is helping no one. They need to F off back to the Seventies where they belong.
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I don't think this guy is going to say he is an innocent party. I think he is inferring that as a 'hooligan' or in some cases simply a football fan, you get monitored and all kinds of travel bans, passport surrenders that does not appear to be happening to terrorists.

Likewise saw something on Twitter saying that maybe instead of all the police surveillance and filming in pubs in big football towns on a match day, they could be redeployed doing the same thing but instead potentially saving lives...
 
the British government made a terrible mistake cutting police and prison staff

It seems pretty obvious that monitoring every suspect 24/7 is going to require a huge increase in resources

Internment can't be far off either - human rights lobby unfortunately have to be ignored when there's lives in danger

I write that reluctantly as a liberal and hate the idea of the state snooping, but what choice is there?
 
Just to come back to the argument that "if the muslim population helped us and weeded out the ones who they suspect then this action wouldn't be required. But whats the chances of that happening?" - it appears that the bombers family have reported him to authorities in the past. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/manchester-concert-explosion/manchester-bomb-suspect-said-have-had-ties-al-qaeda-terrorism-n763691

"Members of his own family had even informed on him in the past, telling British authorities that he was dangerous, according to the intelligence official".

The blame for attacks like this does not lie with the thousands of innocent Muslims that live happily in this country. The sooner we change our thinking to focus on the actual problems the better. Cuts to police for example, this video is doing the rounds today and it's both poignant and chilling. https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017...resa-may-cuts-were-risking-national-security/
 
Amp and Deck said:
the British government made a terrible mistake cutting police and prison staff

It seems pretty obvious that monitoring every suspect 24/7 is going to require a huge increase in resources

Internment can't be far off either - human rights lobby unfortunately have to be ignored when there's lives in danger

I write that reluctantly as a liberal and hate the idea of the state snooping, but what choice is there?
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I don't agree with internment in the slightest, history proves that it doesn't work - it was simply a propaganda tool for the IRA and increased terror activity - look up Operation Demetrius for anyone who wants to read about. It would be a disaster.

Increased policing and resources however, yes, just posted agreeing.
 
The British government operated an "open door" policy that allowed Libyan exiles and British-Libyan citizens to join the 2011 uprising that toppled Muammar Gaddafi even though some had been subject to counter-terrorism control orders, Middle East Eye can reveal.

Several former rebel fighters now back in the UK told MEE that they had been able to travel to Libya with "no questions asked" as authorities continued to investigate the background of a British-Libyan suicide bomber who killed 22 people in Monday's attack in Manchester

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/s...sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488
 
re: internment - I increasingly take the view that anyone suspected of terrorism affiliations/sympathies, even at most basic level must be removed from the streets immediately. now Guantanamo was controversial but it kept people like Ronald Fiddler off the streets. He should NEVER have been released http://news.sky.com/story/ronald-fiddler-british-born-model-turned-jihadi-10777339

re: Libya - it's important to understand the fall of Gaddafi in the context of the Arab Spring. It briefly seemed like the Middle East would become a better place, because the uprisings were being driven by young idealists. The problem was the West underestimated the islamist fundamentalism of the opposition movements to the tyrants.

but it is always a difficult one for any foreign power - which is the lesser evil? the hardman secular tyrant or the fundamentalist loons?

however, Libya in itself doesn't explain the various terrorist attacks around the world over many years on very diverse targets.

again I refer back to my posts yesterday though. This is a cultural conflict between civilisation and barbarity
 
Neo95gt said:
The people that blame the west for this stuff seriously need their heads checked. Let's just pretend we stopped bombing the terrorists, you really think they would stop blowing themselves up?

I say lock up or ship out any radical Muslim or ISIS supporter.
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The damage is done. The Iraq war was like opening Pandora's box in terms of the refugee crisis and terrorism. I actually feel sorrier for countries like Tunisia, Turkey and Greece that are really stretched and suffering, as one of the countries that is the main cause of the problem (us) pulls up the drawbridge.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
The damage is done. The Iraq war was like opening Pandora's box in terms of the refugee crisis and terrorism. I actually feel sorrier for countries like Tunisia, Turkey and Greece that are really stretched and suffering, as one of the countries that is the main cause of the problem (us) pulls up the drawbridge.
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but I notice you make no mention of sunni-shia divisions though, tribalism and the bitter enmity between Iran and Saudi Arabia, the major faultline in the middle east

the internal issues preventing Arab societies from joining the advanced liberal democratic world are the real source of the problem

South America, the Far East, sub-saharan Africa have all been exposed to often brutal, colonial or tyrannical rule, coups, historical conquests and occupation but they are not inspiring 21st century death cults on European streets
 
Jihadism as we know it in it's present form was born out of a direct result of Western meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, if Adam Curtis is to be believed. He makes a very convincing case, and I'm yet to read/see anything which throws his argument into doubt. Happy to have my horizons broadened, though, if anybody has sources which contradicts this claim.
 
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