http://anticutsspace.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/a-message-to-a-country-on-fire/
have a read of these idiots...
have a read of these idiots...
London riots
- Thread starter Robder
- Start date
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I'm not justifying the rioting, but why is this happening in more and more western countries (France, Greece, now Britain)? You have failing bankers getting away with murder (being propped up by us, then still taking bonuses - all that money should, by rights, be trickling back to the taxpayer), MPs fiddling expenses, cops battering/shooting/killing innocent(ish) people then not being properly punished. (I'm feeling my wallet tighten in this credit crunch. I wonder how many bankers at the top are?) On top of that, we have a society where the predominant message is greed/possessions/capitalism = good, a widening gap between rich and poor, fewer jobs, and a progressively uneducated and frustrated underclass.
It's not hard to see where all this leads to - and there will be more of it.
It's not hard to see where all this leads to - and there will be more of it.
i am not disputing a lot of what you are saying mate...and it is not right.
however, looking at the videos and the images of those on the streets and their ages etc, do you really think that this is some rising up to 'redistrubute the wealth' (as the guy highlighted by Becki mentioned)?? Or is it a lot of youths looking to rob and cause damage & violence.?
Buckley
Well-Known Member
All of that stuff has always gone on Johnny, and burning the family-run cornershop to the ground, along with the DHSS tenant flats above it it, will not change it. The difference is that since G20 the Police are trying to not use force and when that's all that will work.
Apologism for mindlessly wrecking the homes of your own class doesn't wash. This is no revolution, there are no slogans, there is no objective.
We may well need to address how are our society produces such cretins, but the immediate goal has to be stop them by whatever means.
sums it up in one phrase
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I think you'd be wrong to think there's any 'message' to what they're doing. I wonder how many of these kids have a job to go to? I suspect we're dealing more with pent up frustration plus getting their hands on 'goodies' which are out of reach due to no jobs/money.
freakstar
Well-Known Member
May was out of her depth before this crisis and fankly by far Camerons most ilogical appointment. This soundbyte comment without any thought demonstrates this. Police by consent is all fair and well when keeping the peace. However, clearly when peace has been broken so spectacularly, police by consent no longer applies and an urgent response is required, certainly no time for sitting in community group debates - that will clearly be required when civil order is restored but time dictates that urgent action (whatever that may be) and commensurate with conditions on the ground is the only way forward.
Morbyd
Moderator
Yes. Total b.s. There. I said it. Genuinely!
I've thought about this for the past couple days. Joked about it at first. Gasped as it all got out of control. I'm not there, but I have a heck of a lot of friends and colleagues who are. And I like London... so I worry. And here's what I've decided:
You can't blame bankers and politicians. I'm not even sure you can blame the parents or teachers. You can't blame circumstance, unemployment, poverty, immigration, racism, government, media, ease of access to petrol, poorly built shop windows, or not enough police on the streets.
In the end, it comes down to the individual. If you steal, commit arson, trash police cars, rape, pillage, or help yourself to the latest model of Android phone from a smashed up Carphone Warehouse - it's your fault. There is no one to blame but the perpetrators.
You can talk about the root causes all you want, but people make a choice. Everyone has a choice. You can decide to live in society, and live by the rules of that society, or you can decide to say "f**k society". I have no time for the latter category. They all belong in jail, and if they were coming for my property, there'd be the imprint of a baseball bat on their heads.
Edit: Just saw MarkB's post above. Seconded!!
Johnny, its far more organised than you think.
Areas attacked North, South, East & West, a perfect strategy to stretch the police.
theres even a number for a (human rights) lawyer u can call if you get nicked!
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Whilst I don't agree with some of the remainder of that post the excerpts above are very important here, though I would say 'rarely occurs'. If you look at the destruction the Japanese faced in the wake of the recent Tsunami, and the orderly stoicism with which they face adversity (be the cause of it natural or economic disaster), it is absolutely shameful to see this happening in Britain. The problems here are cultural and not political - society is lazy and disrespectful, and expectations are way out of line with reality.
Having lived in Africa for many years I have no time whatsoever for people in a relatively affluent society like Britain trying to justify this behaviour on economic grounds. One benefit cheque is more than many people earn in a year in some parts of the world. But a benefit cheque and an easy life does not deliver self-respect or a meaningful existence.
The problem here is that many people have too much time on their hands and as the old adage goes, the devil makes work for idle hands. If people have no respect for themselves they have no respect for society either and no purpose = disaffection.
If there are no jobs, then exploit Britain's arable land potential and establish collectives to work it in place of a futile urban existence. The social benefits would be worth it whether any economic gain arose or not. There is absolutely no point having a load of young people sat at home resenting the fact they are disenfranchised from society, having material goods thrust in their faces and looking for someone to blame as to why they can't have them.
So I don't think we all have a god given right to choose whether to take from or contribute to society. No I b***dy don't. innit.
Well said mate.
Word
http://anticutsspace.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/a-message-to-a-country-on-fire/
have a read of these idiots...
What a moron!
WeLuvIbiza
Active Member
Lead by example.
Is this what the politicians have been doing for the past few decades when lying, cheating and scheming to feather their own nests? Many might consider the kids doing the looting as the lowest of the low in terms of intelligence, but surely even they know when they are systematically being stitched up by the elected government(s)?
I reiterate again, I do not condone this level of violence and destruction and would stand shoulder to shoulder with friends or family to defend property against this mindless destruction.
But this is a worldwide problem that is not going to go away overnight, what other endgame is there in a never ending and ever increasing capitlist greed driven society than the one we see unfolding? We are being brainwashed on a daily basis on how having the latest hi tech gadgets and home comforts is the basis for modern day living.
Is this what the politicians have been doing for the past few decades when lying, cheating and scheming to feather their own nests? Many might consider the kids doing the looting as the lowest of the low in terms of intelligence, but surely even they know when they are systematically being stitched up by the elected government(s)?
I reiterate again, I do not condone this level of violence and destruction and would stand shoulder to shoulder with friends or family to defend property against this mindless destruction.
But this is a worldwide problem that is not going to go away overnight, what other endgame is there in a never ending and ever increasing capitlist greed driven society than the one we see unfolding? We are being brainwashed on a daily basis on how having the latest hi tech gadgets and home comforts is the basis for modern day living.
Karl Marx said capitalism would hurt society, he was so right.
Sorry, no one I know is brainwashed into thinking this is acceptable, regardless of how many adverts for HD Tvs they've watched.
Do you really think politicians buying duck houses is the trigger for these riots? This isn't a worldwide problem. This is a problem today in the UK. It's not like what we've seen recently in Europe or the Middle East. You cannot compare these situations.
It's not a protest against austerity measures like we saw in Greece or a pro democracy revolution in Eygpt, it's opportunistic theft and damage on a huge scale, for a laugh!
These people aren't starving, they have blackberries and cars and vans.
Morbyd
Moderator
No no no.
Greed is personal. If you're greedy and materialistic, you need to have a word with yourself!
I am far from rich, but I send a lot of time around people who are much better off than I am. They've got cool toys, some of which I'd like to have. But I've never spent a second looking for someone to blame for me not having them.
I think that's the problem. I've never been against capitalism, nor do I decry the difference between rich and poor (although I do support helping the poorest where appropriate). I don't think it's a bad thing that we have access to material things. I love gadgets.
But I do decry an attitude that just because things exist, we should have them, whether we worked for them or not. That's an individual problem, not a societal one.