*** ibiza gossip 2019 ***

karuki89 said:
I agree that event organisers this year are getting greedy and UK events are starting to feel oversold with rougher crowds.

Abode @ Tobacco Dock this year was an overcrowded mess in comparison to the previous year, on the off chance you did find some space you would then need to spend 10-15 minutes getting in/out again if you needed the toilet/air. I'm 30 myself and can't really be arsed to deal with that kind of overcrowding at a UK event (more accepting of it in Ibiza as you kinda expect it for some events).

WEARE felt a bit off & weird when we'd really enjoyed it previous years.

Eastern Electrics had four stabbings https://mixmag.net/read/men-stabbed-london-festival-eastern-electrics-news.

For Ibiza I'd try Cocoon if you haven't already, much nicer crowd and a decent level of busy, went for the first time this year and it was one of the highlights of the trip. Abode seems to get a nicer crowd in Ibiza than the UK too and has always been solid musically while not being too busy.
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I totally agree with your whole post
I think social media has really boosted the numbers over the years. Elrow draws new faces to the scene who then end up going to other events to get a piece. Music that we hear at the events end up in the charts also which then creates attraction.

For me now and I was only speaking about this yesterday. It is a shame what it has come to because if you really think about this...
How long does it take to get into the venue?
How long do you spend queuing at the bar?
How long do you spend queuing for the toilet?
How long do you spend moving through the crowd?
How long do you spend making your way to the chill out area and spending at the chill out area?
The travelling time before and after an event?
So...how much of your night is spent focused on the music and left to enjoy it?

All these venues that are packed out are by people very young doing £100+ of drugs a night each.
In my opinion it is getting worse from observations and events like Abode are among the worst for it with Solid Grooves following up close behind.

Wearefstvl also was a dive... That should not be allowed next year
 
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Life of Rye said:
I totally agree with your whole post
I think social media has really boosted the numbers over the years. Elrow draws new faces to the scene who then end up going to other events to get a piece. Music that we hear at the events end up in the charts also which then creates attraction.
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It's simple. General comment but don't be a sheep, avoid these 'one day festival' types. In most UK cities there are club events going on in smaller venues where you don't get any of these problems. London alone has loads going on for most musical tastes and doesn't suffer from the popularism of these events. 93 Feet East, Micks Garage, E1, Fabric will all produce good house / techno events, be easy but generally under the radar.

Saying that I think we are at saturation - I'm tempted by the Cuttin Headz event at Tobacco Docks if I can get a cheap ticket. It's looking like it is only 50-75% sold, line up in some of the other rooms is pretty decent and with Abode In The Park the next day it might be a slightly better crowd. Drumcode Halloween also usually sells out very early but I get the feeling they are struggling to shift advanced tickets.
 
Yes @Springal - it's exactly what I said in Ibiza about Coxy's birthday party. A thin line between failure and (over) success it would seem!

People want to go where everybody else is going, but then complain about the crowds. But when it's not busy enough, that's bad as well. Event organisers can't win. They either spend wisely and still lose money because the line-up "isn't strong enough", or make a little money and get accused of greed. Artist fees for the big ticket sellers are extortionate. Book 3 of them, then you need to be selling out otherwise you're simply burning money.

Most promoters I know would sooner book the lesser-knowns and sell tickets at a sensible price, but the reality is that it doesn't work in the current climate.

Plenty of amazing parties and festivals do still go on, where the music is equally as great - if not better. You just have to make the decision: do I want to be entertained comfortably in a venue that is half-full or be pushed from pillar to post at an event that is 110% full. It's a no brainer for me.

Ignore the big marketed names/events. Once people realise this, they will wonder why they didn't start doing it sooner. (And, yes, it definitely is an age thing.)
 
Anyone been to Wildchild @ Heart this year? Any good? Looking for an option for Saturday night when I'm over. Not dead set on going out but if the mood strikes it'd be good to have an option. Will be in Ibiza town so was wondering whether this was any good?
 
white_isle_calling said:
Yes @Springal - it's exactly what I said in Ibiza about Coxy's birthday party. A thin line between failure and (over) success it would seem!

People want to go where everybody else is going, but then complain about the crowds. But when it's not busy enough, that's bad as well. Event organisers can't win. They either spend wisely and still lose money because the line-up "isn't strong enough", or make a little money and get accused of greed. Artist fees for the big ticket sellers are extortionate. Book 3 of them, then you need to be selling out otherwise you're simply burning money.

Most promoters I know would sooner book the lesser-knowns and sell tickets at a sensible price, but the reality is that it doesn't work in the current climate.

Plenty of amazing parties and festivals do still go on, where the music is equally as great - if not better. You just have to make the decision: do I want to be entertained comfortably in a venue that is half-full or be pushed from pillar to post at an event that is 110% full. It's a no brainer for me.

Ignore the big marketed names/events. Once people realise this, they will wonder why they didn't start doing it sooner. (And, yes, it definitely is an age thing.)
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You can have a strong line up.... And cap the tickets. Organisers ultimately care about the bottom line so it makes sense to them to fill it to capacity.

People want to go to that special club to see that special someone. Why do we have to just accept that to do so we know it is going to be rammed.

Why not have dj's play 2 hour sets... All this one on one off every hour just seems ridiculous. It has become a thing and no one changes.
It is no becoming a thing having someone b2b with someone b2b with someone.... however at least they do 3 or more hours in doing so.
There is a way of cutting down the costs but still providing an amazing night

Musicon has the perfect recipe and is proof why it works so well and will continue to do so... Solomun included.
Take 3-5 dj's and let them play for 6 hours.
 
Life of Rye said:
You can have a strong line up.... And cap the tickets. Organisers ultimately care about the bottom line so it makes sense to them to fill it to capacity.

People want to go to that special club to see that special someone. Why do we have to just accept that to do so we know it is going to be rammed.

Why not have dj's play 2 hour sets... All this one on one off every hour just seems ridiculous. It has become a thing and no one changes.
It is no becoming a thing having someone b2b with someone b2b with someone.... however at least they do 3 or more hours in doing so.
There is a way of cutting down the costs but still providing an amazing night

Musicon has the perfect recipe and is proof why it works so well and will continue to do so... Solomun included.
Take 3-5 dj's and let them play for 6 hours.
Click to expand...

You're literally only talking about a few of these one off 'big' events though aren't you? What you have described does not happen in the vast majority of nights available to you. You are just drawn to the ones with the biggest marketing budget and over-popular line ups.

Also you only need to look at Instagram to know everyone seems to be flying around on Private Jets, 5* Hotels, Big Guestlists, Riders etc. DJs are as much of a problem in this. I don't think promoters are making as much money as you are making out.
 
Life of Rye said:
You can have a strong line up.... And cap the tickets. Organisers ultimately care about the bottom line so it makes sense to them to fill it to capacity.
Click to expand...
It's funny, because of the events you mention, I know many of those organisers personally - and I can tell you categorically that your observations are completely wrong.

In regards to Abode at Tobacco Dock (and also other events there, Drumcode Halloween being one) they are not oversold - just the majority of the crowd scramble to 2 out of the 3 rooms. If they had sense and dispersed proportionately, you wouldn't think they were oversold at all.
This is more about crowd's attitude than it is about organisers being greedy. So, again, pick your events (or crowds) better.

To be completely clear, I also think that the car park is no fun at those events. But it is not "over sold". It would be a lot more tolerable if people weren't selfish dickheads. That is the problem. You wouldn't get that "me me" attitude with an older, friendly crowd.
 
white_isle_calling said:
It's funny, because of the events you mention, I know many of those organisers personally - and I can tell you categorically that your observations are completely wrong.

In regards to Abode at Tobacco Dock (and also other events there, Drumcode Halloween being one) they are not oversold - just the majority of the crowd scramble to 2 out of the 3 rooms. If they had sense and dispersed proportionately, you wouldn't think they were oversold at all.
This is more about crowd's attitude than it is about organisers being greedy. So, again, pick your events better.
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Agreed. LWE events at Tobacco Docks I've never seen overcrowding, certainly Drumcode is well balanced and the better use of Great Gallery has definitely helped. Even when Beyer is on, there is still space around the edges

But anyway this isn't really Ibiza Gossip is it :)
 
Life of Rye said:
You can have a strong line up.... And cap the tickets. Organisers ultimately care about the bottom line so it makes sense to them to fill it to capacity.

People want to go to that special club to see that special someone. Why do we have to just accept that to do so we know it is going to be rammed.

Why not have dj's play 2 hour sets... All this one on one off every hour just seems ridiculous. It has become a thing and no one changes.
It is no becoming a thing having someone b2b with someone b2b with someone.... however at least they do 3 or more hours in doing so.
There is a way of cutting down the costs but still providing an amazing night

Musicon has the perfect recipe and is proof why it works so well and will continue to do so... Solomun included.
Take 3-5 dj's and let them play for 6 hours.
Click to expand...

That's yet another reason why after some time people just go to serious clubs like Berghain where a closing set on the main floor can easily run to 6 hours or more and it's totally normal. The hour-long (or even 45-minute) set thing is the programming equivalent of a wedding megamix or a Miami Pool Party hit parade. If you seriously enjoy your music you don't even think about going to events like that. It's only live sets where sub-2hrs is expected.

To illustrate my point look at this randomly picked running order from early August http://berghain.de/event/2931

Sets are opportunities for musical expression by just about every DJ, and to coin a corny phrase just about every one is a musical journey. The likes of Capriati and Carola would fill that space with a load of poorly put together drivel. More talented DJs will dish out a real experience time after time.

Aside from a techno heaven downstairs, I had my eyes and ears opened to so much in Panorama Bar too hearing amazing stuff from diverse genres I would never even have considered listening to. A real education for broadening your mind. Those for me are the clubbing experiences I always go back to when I think about musically amazing parties.

Mainstream festivals and club nights are just that - mainstream. Not to be snobby about it but formulaic hit parades for the masses. If you want a serious experience you have to go where they are focused on the music and not commercialism. The fact that often comes with a messy edge and a relative lack of visual spectacle is something to embrace imho.
 
Springal said:
You're literally only talking about a few of these one off 'big' events though aren't you? What you have described does not happen in the vast majority of nights available to you. You are just drawn to the ones with the biggest marketing budget and over-popular line ups.

Also you only need to look at Instagram to know everyone seems to be flying around on Private Jets, 5* Hotels, Big Guestlists, Riders etc. DJs are as much of a problem in this. I don't think promoters are making as much money as you are making out.
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I agree with your posts Springal and I imagine for sure promotoers are not making as much money as we think.... and because of this they push the capacity limit to make it worth while

I have heard the cost of some of these tech house dj's for an hour so no wonder they are trying to fill a venue to 5k ppl it is dog eat dog...

I know I sound like I am contradicting myself here about cost of ticket and lineup etc... It is important that we are not blind to the issues and understand what the organisers are up against. They need to provide an attractive lineup... to attract the numbers.... to pay for the attractive lineup and pay their bills and make it worth while for them since that is their bread and butter. There are many events out there that are likely not taking much profit and I would say Grooves, Abode, Toolroom, Sankeys, defected, glitterbox are among those that don't come out the other end annually making a huge amount of money.
 
Some crunching here of numbers on Studio 338 capacity (3000)

Average rough entry - £40 = £120,000
Alcohol on the night? £25 each average... £75,000
Ancillary likes cloakroom... Call it £2000 to be generous

Total £197,000

10 djs averaging 5k for an hour £50,000
Staff for the night? 20 security? 20 bar staff? £5,000

Leaves 140k...

Rent, licence, supplies, advertising, insurance, legal fees, taxes.... Debatable how much that all comes to... but actually when you look at it you find that there is a healthy amount of money left over after your big single night costs
 
Life of Rye said:
Rent, licence, supplies, advertising, insurance, legal fees, taxes.... Debatable how much that all comes to... but actually when you look at it you find that there is a healthy amount of money left over after your big single night costs
Click to expand...

What about the fact that the venue burned down 2 years ago and their insurance company went bust before it paid out???

What about business rates? (it sits on the Greenwich delta, opposite is Canary Wharf and our city's financial district. PRIME real estate. Don't be naive to think those rates don't cross the water to some degree)

What about the fact it rarely opens more than one night a week???? (how many other businesses could operate like this?)
 
Life of Rye said:
Some crunching here of numbers on Studio 338 capacity (3000)

Average rough entry - £40 = £120,000
Alcohol on the night? £25 each average... £75,000
Ancillary likes cloakroom... Call it £2000 to be generous

Total £197,000

10 djs averaging 5k for an hour £50,000
Staff for the night? 20 security? 20 bar staff? £5,000

Leaves 140k...

Rent, licence, supplies, advertising, insurance, legal fees, taxes.... Debatable how much that all comes to... but actually when you look at it you find that there is a healthy amount of money left over after your big single night costs
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity have you completely made all those numbers up? Av

erage entry is not £40, I went to Home on Sunday and bought a ticket on the day for £20.

As to the DJ fees I think you could be way off! Maybe for events like Abode with the smaller actual names but I can't see Carola/Dice/Sven playing for £5000 an hour!
 
Studio 338 probably does alright for itself. Lower profile venues like Village Underground and Corsica Studios, I do wonder how they manage to stay afloat with the London rental market as it is today. Especially as the trend towards ‘big’ events like tobacco dock, 338, one day festivals etc over smaller clubs every weekend seems to only be accelerating.
 
kimajy said:
That's yet another reason why after some time people just go to serious clubs like Berghain where a closing set on the main floor can easily run to 6 hours or more and it's totally normal. The hour-long (or even 45-minute) set thing is the programming equivalent of a wedding megamix or a Miami Pool Party hit parade. If you seriously enjoy your music you don't even think about going to events like that. It's only live sets where sub-2hrs is expected.

To illustrate my point look at this randomly picked running order from early August http://berghain.de/event/2931

Sets are opportunities for musical expression by just about every DJ, and to coin a corny phrase just about every one is a musical journey. The likes of Capriati and Carola would fill that space with a load of poorly put together drivel. More talented DJs will dish out a real experience time after time.

Aside from a techno heaven downstairs, I had my eyes and ears opened to so much in Panorama Bar too hearing amazing stuff from diverse genres I would never even have considered listening to. A real education for broadening your mind. Those for me are the clubbing experiences I always go back to when I think about musically amazing parties.

Mainstream festivals and club nights are just that - mainstream. Not to be snobby about it but formulaic hit parades for the masses. If you want a serious experience you have to go where they are focused on the music and not commercialism. The fact that often comes with a messy edge and a relative lack of visual spectacle is something to embrace imho.
Click to expand...
Sorry but this is pompous nonsense. You are in danger of saying to the forum my music is better than your music unless you like what i like. Obscure and educational music nights are great if you like what you hear. In over 25 years of clubbing I’ve benefitted from many a night like that. However for the majority of ears it’s simply not listenable. It’s that old debate again about when does underground start becoming an excuse for playing naval gazing crap. Six hours from a dj playing the same style ‘building’ with fewer and fewer ‘moments’ is hell to most people. As for festivals, it depends what you are going to see but seeing Ben klock in club or a festival is still Ben klock.
 
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Life of Rye said:
Some crunching here of numbers on Studio 338 capacity (3000)

Average rough entry - £40 = £120,000
Alcohol on the night? £25 each average... £75,000
Ancillary likes cloakroom... Call it £2000 to be generous

Total £197,000

10 djs averaging 5k for an hour £50,000
Staff for the night? 20 security? 20 bar staff? £5,000

Leaves 140k...

Rent, licence, supplies, advertising, insurance, legal fees, taxes.... Debatable how much that all comes to... but actually when you look at it you find that there is a healthy amount of money left over after your big single night costs
Click to expand...

you assume in those figures that all alcohol spend on the night is profit....where is the cost of buying the alcohol? (of course that depends on what deal the promoter has with the venue, but either way that 75k you refer to is not all profit which you imply)

in addition, you have not included for any associated costs of booking the dj's.....travel, hotel, agency booking fee etc

also, the cost of promoting the night isn't anywhere in your figures...

As has been mentioned above, the promoters (in the main, cos of course there are exceptions) are certainly not coining it in. The dj's on the other hand....
 
Life of Rye said:
Some crunching here of numbers on Studio 338 capacity (3000)

Average rough entry - £40 = £120,000
Alcohol on the night? £25 each average... £75,000
Ancillary likes cloakroom... Call it £2000 to be generous

Total £197,000

10 djs averaging 5k for an hour £50,000
Staff for the night? 20 security? 20 bar staff? £5,000

Leaves 140k...

Rent, licence, supplies, advertising, insurance, legal fees, taxes.... Debatable how much that all comes to... but actually when you look at it you find that there is a healthy amount of money left over after your big single night costs
Click to expand...
It just doesn’t work like that I’m afraid. You haven’t even factored the promoter into the equation, let alone location, porosity of events, maintenance of the venue, mortgage on the venue or rent, rates, business charges.
 
AR_IBIZA said:
Just out of curiosity have you completely made all those numbers up? Av

erage entry is not £40, I went to Home on Sunday and bought a ticket on the day for £20.

As to the DJ fees I think you could be way off! Maybe for events like Abode with the smaller actual names but I can't see Carola/Dice/Sven playing for £5000 an hour!
Click to expand...
Lol.. who gets 5k an hour
 
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