Freedom of Speech/Religious Extremism

[Buckley]

But in other peoples eyes you could be the tragedy, for living your whole life with no belief, no God to aspire to etc.

But should I make one up to aspire to? And if not, which of the currently available creators do I worship? Allah requires that I prove my faith so if Muslims are right then I'm buggered if I don't follow them? Does Hell still exist for Christians? If so and chose Allah am I off there? It doesn't make sense.

 

[silvia]

That's too far a conceptual leap Sil. Racial and sexual diversity is a world apart from religious diversity and major races and sexual orientations are not mutually exclusive. You can be a gay black man and still be happy enough that a white staight woman is as she is. You cannot be a Muslim without think Christians beliefs are incorrect and vice versa.

Such a conceptual comment can't come from Sil writting in english

Buckley, am I wrong if I suppose you went to a strict catholic school?
I grew up in a catholic environement and went to a catholic school and nobody teach me that muslims beliefs are incorrect from a Christian point of view and nobody teach me that Christians has the absolut truth

 

[Beckiboo]

That's too far a conceptual leap Sil. Racial and sexual diversity is a world apart from religious diversity and major races and sexual orientations are not mutually exclusive. You can be a gay black man and still be happy enough that a white staight woman is as she is. You cannot be a Muslim without think Christians beliefs are incorrect and vice versa.

That's wrong Buckley, the Muslim faith acknowledges the Christian faith in the Koran, it doesn't think the Christian faith is wrong or incorrect, there's nothing to compare it to because they both believe in a totally different history, ok both are loosely based on the theory that their is one higher being (God/Allah) and both have a type of son of God (Jesus/Muhammed) but IMO it's no different than two people arguing over whether Arsenal or Man U are the better team

I dont know why football keeps getting brought into this debate lol, I guess it's the most easy comparison to make when talking about worship and beliefs

 

[The Fox]

Is it just me or is all religion sh1t?

 

[silvia]

what......don't you know the often misquoted saying by Marx, as exemplified by Morbyd above

"football is the opium of the people"

I know, Marx was first thing I thought after my surprise to see R.Madrid on here

 

[hounddj]

Devoutly religious = Absolutley no sense of humour (& quite often dangerously mentalist) - not just Islam but all religions and thank goodness we still live in a secular society.

The nutters outside the Danish embassy with the placards calling for non-believers to be beheaded, more terrror attacks in London (etc) should have been arrested and prosecuted. It constituted incitement to violence and is against the law in this country.

 

[Buckley]

Such a conceptual comment can't come from Sil writting in english

Buckley, am I wrong if I suppose you went to a strict catholic school?
I grew up in a catholic environement and went to a catholic school and nobody teach me that muslims beliefs are incorrect from a Christian point of view and nobody teach me that Christians has the absolut truth

Not particularly strict Sil. They didn't throw me out for constantly asking questions in R.E. lessons and saying 'well it doesn't seem very likely'.

The religions are contradictory - so whether a teacher/preacher has specifically said Islam or whatever is bunkum, you can't believe one without disbelieving the other. If you believe Jews are God's chosen people, then you can't believe that Catholics will get into heaven as long as they manage to wheeze out a 'Sorry' to him upstairs with their final breath.

 

[silvia]

But should I make one up to aspire to? And if not, which of the currently available creators do I worship? Allah requires that I prove my faith so if Muslims are right then I'm buggered if I don't follow them? Does Hell still exist for Christians? If so and chose Allah am I off there? It doesn't make sense.

It's a shame you don't speak spanish Buckley, I would love to discuss this with you with same condition

THere's people who went from Cristianism to Islam and vice versa.
I do agree that there's hundreds of thousands of people who belive without asking themselves about their god and about their belifes, but there's also lots and lots of people who do.

BTW, how do you know The Current is THE ONE?

 

[grego]

Such a conceptual comment can't come from Sil writting in english

Buckley, am I wrong if I suppose you went to a strict catholic school?
I grew up in a catholic environement and went to a catholic school and nobody teach me that muslims beliefs are incorrect from a Christian point of view and nobody teach me that Christians has the absolut truth

sil the point is (like i said earlier) judaism, christianity and islam have to be opposed to each other as they supersede each other, although they started in the same place.

if you are a true muslim, then the beliefs of jews/christians directly undermines and contradicts your own beliefs. fact

 

[Buckley]

That's wrong Buckley, the Muslim faith acknowledges the Christian faith in the Koran, it doesn't think the Christian faith is wrong or incorrect, there's nothing to compare it to because they both believe in a totally different history, ok both are loosely based on the theory that their is one higher being (God/Allah) and both have a type of son of God (Jesus/Muhammed) but IMO it's no different than two people arguing over whether Arsenal or Man U are the better team

I dont know why football keeps getting brought into this debate lol, I guess it's the most easy comparison to make when talking about worship and beliefs

So would you are you more likely to get into heaven (i.e. win the World Cup) with Jesus or Muhammed up front? And will God be given special permission to not stay in the technical coaching area, what with the whole omnipresence problem and all? Wasn't Fowler known as God at Liverpool first time out? Have you ever seen him and the big guy (not Crouch) at the same time? I think we should be told!

Grego can probably help here but I'm fairly sure that all the major religions are mutually exclusive.

 

[silvia]

sil the point is (like i said earlier) judaism, christianity and islam have to be opposed to each other as they supersede each other, although they started in the same place.

if you are a true muslim, then the beliefs of jews/christians directly undermines and contradicts your own beliefs. fact

And if you are a true muslim do you belive that you own the absolut truth?

 

[Morbyd]

That's wrong Buckley, the Muslim faith acknowledges the Christian faith in the Koran, it doesn't think the Christian faith is wrong or incorrect, there's nothing to compare it to because they both believe in a totally different history, ok both are loosely based on the theory that their is one higher being (God/Allah) and both have a type of son of God (Jesus/Muhammed) but IMO it's no different than two people arguing over whether Arsenal or Man U are the better team

Muhammed is not a "son of God", just a prophet.

To simplify it, Christianity is based on Judaism but with one additional prophet (whom they accept as the messiah/son of god) and his teachings. Islam is based on Christianity but with one additional prophet (Mohammed) and his teachings. One difference, however, is that Islam accepts Jesus only as a prophet of sorts, not a messiah... thus, the teachings of Allah's messenger Mohammed are of most importance.

 

[hounddj]

(probably)

 

[Buckley]

It's a shame you don't speak spanish Buckley, I would love to discuss this with you with same condition

THere's people who went from Cristianism to Islam and vice versa.
I do agree that there's hundreds of thousands of people who belive without asking themselves about their god and about their belifes, but there's also lots and lots of people who do.

BTW, how do you know The Current is THE ONE?

Indeed. I missed the start of my Spanish course too and have to wait a month now too.

The current: she's made me happier than I've ever been in my life. Don't know if I believe in 'The one' as a concept but I can't imagine I could love anyone like I love her. I feel this for her Sil, but not because anyone told me the minute I was old enough to take in information that I should.

 

[grego]

And if you are a true muslim do you belive that you own the absolut truth?

of course you must otherwise you aren't a true or devout muslim. if you believe even a small part that your religion is not the absolute truth then you are not really a follower of that religion

 

[silvia]

Indeed. I missed the start of my Spanish course too and have to wait a month now too.

The current: she's made me happier than I've ever been in my life. Don't know if I believe in 'The one' as a concept but I can't imagine I could love anyone like I love her. I feel this for her Sil, but not because anyone told me the minute I was old enough to take in information that I should.

Are you going to start Spanish, Buckley? I want to see you in the spanish forum discussing the human and the divine in six months

My question about the current was to picture the irrational thing or the thing that can't be explained. And I did agree with you that a huge percentage of belivers of any religion doesn't ask themselves about their god, is exactly like getting married cos it's what supposed to be next

 

[grego]

Grego can probably help here but I'm fairly sure that all the major religions are mutually exclusive.

as said earlier the 3 religions are known as ‘abrahamic relgions’ in that they all trace their peoples as descendants of Abraham, who indeed is an important prophet in all 3 religions. His son Isaac links to Judaism and then accepted continuation to Christianity, whilst the other son Ismael is the accepted link to islam.

As buckers says, not only are they mutually exclusive but they actually supersede each other, in terms of Jesus and Mohammed being God’s representative on earth and therefore ultimate prophet/saviour.

Pretty much all of the old testament is somewhere in the Qu’ran, genesis story, adma and eve, cain and abel, noah’s flood, moses, Sodom and Gomorrah. Muslims believe the torah and the bible have been corrupted and distorted over time and that there book is the true version.

The big divisive issue IMO is the fact that Jesus and Mohammed are recreated on earth in the image of God, so at best there is always 2 out of 3 faiths who will deny who is the ultimate prophet.

 

[silvia]

The big divisive issue IMO is the fact that Jesus and Mohammed are recreated on earth in the image of God, so at best there is always 2 out of 3 faiths who will deny who is the ultimate prophet.

Can you translate for me, please?

 

[djchewie]

next you'll be telling us father christmas aint real, and the easter bunny was cooked up by a over zealous dentist.

 

[Morbyd]

The big divisive issue IMO is the fact that Jesus and Mohammed are recreated on earth in the image of God, so at best there is always 2 out of 3 faiths who will deny who is the ultimate prophet.

The Jews probably have it right... they believe the big prophet hasn't shown up yet.... but he's coming.... some day!