Freedom of Speech/Religious Extremism

[Buckley]

Bucks, in general I agree that religion is mostly bogus. Opiate for the masses and all.

But some people find something they need in it and/or refuse to look beyond it when they get old enough to question their youthful indoctrination. Whatever gets you through the day, you could call it. We've got to have some respect for it, not because we have to believe in it, but because it's something dear to our fellow man.

goddam I sound like a hippy

And for our fellow men who are gay, or women who are unfortunate to be born into a religion that validates treating them as second class citizens?

We should educate. People are wasting their whole lives on bulls**t!

 

[grego]

Bucks, in general I agree that religion is mostly bogus. Opiate for the masses and all.

But some people find something they need in it and/or refuse to look beyond it when they get old enough to question their youthful indoctrination. Whatever gets you through the day, you could call it. We've got to have some respect for it, not because we have to believe in it, but because it's something dear to our fellow man.

i firmly of the same opinion as buckers as I was indoctrinated as a kid and after extensive reading, research, etc, i know its all fiction.

but perhaps in line with your comments morby, there is always Pascal's wager, which resides at the back of my mind as a constant reminder to my scepticism

 

[fergie19]

Couldnt agree more.

 

[naddyz]

there is always Pascal's wager, which resides at the back of my mind as a constant reminder to my scepticism

what happens if pascal got it wrong and it wasn't christianity - what happens if it's all a big test by satan and those who fail the test to question what they are indoctrinated with go to hell, and those that pass are spared

 

[grego]

what happens if pascal got it wrong and it wasn't christianity - what happens if it's all a big test by satan and those who fail the test to question what they are indoctrinated with go to hell, and those that pass are spared

so what you're saying is that everyone who believe blindly will go to hell and people like me, who questioned what i was told to believe and now don't believe at all, will be spared

 

[djchewie]

 

[Ferd]

Im with Buckley on this one too.

 

[naddyz]

so what you're saying is that everyone who believe blindly will go to hell and people like me, who questioned what i was told to believe and now don't believe at all, will be spared

er, something like that.



My brain really is working in a strange way today

 

[silvia]

I'm saying that millions of people have blind faith in religions that have been rammed into them from when they were too young to know better. I'm saying that Christianity was spread by teaching as fact things that are now accepted (even by Christians) as fiction. I'm saying that there are fossils in existence that prove evolutionary theory. I'm saying I don't know the answer but that means that I know more than these people who say they do.

OK, understood, I don't agree with you in this, and you know why. How many times we have talk about it?

 

[x-amount]

Religion is a load of boIIocks. IMO. Though I don't deny one's right to follow it, I do if it infringes on my life.

I do hink soem branches of religion (moderate islam and extreme catholism) are simply incmpatible with modern western society.

The sooner we remove the right for people to worship their religion from the EU Human Rights bill, the better this world will be.

That said, I think the cartoons we're downright stupid, though we should not be in our current stuation where we seem to be pandering to gun-toting mentalists and acepting them as being, well, "reasonable" people.

 

[Buckley]

OK, understood, I don't agree with you in this, and you know why. How many times we have talk about it?

Becuase I want you (and the rest of the world) to admit I'm right.

 

[Robbie G]

I think its true about children having religion thrust apon them before they have a chance to make their own mind up.

About 2 weeks ago there was a very interesting documentry on Channel 4 called "The Root of All Evil" http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/rootofevil1.html

They went to a catholic school where they where teaching the story of Noah and his ark in a science lesson as if it where fact!

He also quotes a Nobel Peace Prize winner ( His name escapes me at the mo) who said " The only way to make a good person do evil things is religion. Without religion good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things"

 

[NITEFLY]

they're sooo touchy these Islamic fundamentalists All you have to say is 'mohammed is a knob' and they all go bezerk.

Just for the record, buddha is a fat **** and jesus was GAY.

 

[Beckiboo]

Buckers it sounds like you're trying to preach your own religion to people!

Surely a religion is a belief in something that has never been proved, a way of life people follow etc.

Whats different to a Christian believing in Jesus and following his beliefs, to you being adamant that there isn't a higher power and living your life that way?

Each to their own

 

[Buckley]

They went to a catholic school where they where teaching the story of Noah and his ark in a science lesson as if it where fact!

Creationistism holds that 'The Fossil Record' (the fossils found that prove the theory of evolution by the evolutionary order in which they are found) is negated by the story Noah's Ark. They refuse to admit that earlier forms of life are found at a greater depth because they lived earlier and were superseded by evolved versions. They claim that all the creatures found lived at the same time and were wiped out by the great flood, barring of of course those that hopped aboard with Mr and Mrs Noah. Their explaination for the evolutionary order of the finds varies from claiming that the better swimmers of the creatures survived longer to saying that animals that flew stayed in the trees and thus survived longer. All empirical scientists debunk this as rubbish, in particular when you see that flying creatures from the dinosaur age are found at the same level as other creatures from that time...

 

[Morbyd]

Buckers, I fear your one-man quest to teach the world the wrongs of organized religion is doomed to failure

 

[Buckley]

Buckers it sounds like you're trying to preach your own religion to people!

Surely a religion is a belief in something that has never been proved, a way of life people follow etc.

Whats different to a Christian believing in Jesus and following his beliefs, to you being adamant that there isn't a higher power and living your life that way?

Each to their own

Sign up here to join 'Buckleyism'- the cult for all the family!

I'm not adamant there isn't a higher power, but it's as likely to the His Noodliness as anything organised religion teaches.

The difference is that I wasn't convinced in what I believe from when I was too young to question it. I went to Catholic school and was told that Jesus was/is the Son of God as a cast iron fact. I was told that Hell was a literal, physical place as a fact. Muslims are taught their faith as fact. In my opinion this is completely and utterly wrong. Taking just those two faiths - who do you think is right and whose is wrong? And assuming that therefore the millions of people following the 'wrong' faith are living a particular way because they've been lied to (even if that's only other believers passing on lies in good faith), do you not see a problem with that? Live like we tell you to and your reward will be in Heaven? Oops we got it wrong, we're going to Hell but at least we go together? It's immoral.

 

[Morbyd]

I don't know, Buckley... I've always taken comfort in the fact I'm probably goin' to HELL At least I'll have lots of company.

Eternal damnation and suffering sounds like a blast, especially the way the baptist ministers described it when I was going up. Throw another shrimp on the bar-b and get out your kebab skewers... we've got fire and brimstone!

 

[Beckiboo]

Sign up here to join 'Buckleyism'- the cult for all the family!

I'm not adamant there isn't a higher power, but it's as likely to the His Noodliness as anything organised religion teaches.

The difference is that I wasn't convinced in what I believe from when I was too young to question it. I went to Catholic school and was told that Jesus was/is the Son of God as a cast iron fact. I was told that Hell was a literal, physical place as a fact. Muslims are taught their faith as fact. In my opinion this is completely and utterly wrong. Taking just those two faiths - who do you think is right and whose is wrong? And assuming that therefore the millions of people following the 'wrong' faith are living a particular way because they've been lied to (even if that's only other believers passing on lies in good faith), do you not see a problem with that? Live like we tell you to and your reward will be in Heaven? Oops we got it wrong, we're going to Hell but at least we go together? It's immoral.

It comes down to belief. If you believe what you've been told then I see no problem with you living your life the way you want to, even if to others your beliefs are based on lies/unproven statements etc.

At the end of the day Buckers you can't prove there wasn't a Jesus anymore than a Catholic can prove there was, the only thing we can be sure of is that no one will ever really know whether religion is legit or not.

That's why there's so much conflict about religion, no one can prove anything that they believe in, and that goes the same for Aethism, you dis-believers have nothing to convince the believers that they're wrong, it's just whatever you personally believe

 

[Buckley]

Buckers, I fear your one-man quest to teach the world the wrongs of organized religion is doomed to failure

Only because people kid themselves.

I've never once had a religious person outline why their faith is right and the others is wrong. The truth is that you can only believe through a suspension of logic and you can believe anything once you do that.