☣ Coronavirus ☣

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FlatErik said:
I agree that the basic model "lockdown" is not a one size fits all model, despite what EU governments think.

It all depends what you call a "lockdown".
There is already scientific research done where the outcome is that the basic measures are the most effective, washing hands, social distancing, working from home, facemasks in public transport. I think governments went full panic mode went they closed shops, schools, hospitality sector as a whole (not talking about nightclubs or big events).
All those economy-wrecking extra measures are not in proportion to the small extra effect. Actually...what we are seeing now is that the mayors of big cities want the terraces open as soon as possible, cause now people are mass gathering in parks on good weather days.
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At first you can't blame them for shutting everything down. The only argument in the UK was they were too slow to do that, the defence being they are dealing with an unknown and businesses/tax incomes would suffer if places were closed unnecessarily.

All-in-all I reckon the first wave they did well and we got some freedom back reasonably quickly. We were back in the pubs within 14 weeks! But since then when things could have been learned they didn't.

Three examples spring to mind - letting the schools, unis and colleges return all in one go with limited (if any) testing, Starmer (leader of the opposition) calling for a fire-break lockdown obvr the October half-term, which he was ignored and we continued with the tiers, and hitting the wrong targets with lockdown without evidence that they were causing a spike....eg bars being service with food only, closing places at 10 (so people gathered around take-aways) and ridiculous things like charging two friends for having a coffee together...outdoors.

They said there will be a whitewash enquiry, but next time the same mistakes will be made. Government knows best....
 
Michael1982 said:
I actually think compliance was very high in the first lockdown last year. Which is one reason why it worked so well (that and the fact it was early and strict).
The problem now is that through all the federal bickering (and everybody having to agree before anything gets done) and politicians scared of the unpopular choice, people have lost faith in any decision being made.

That and the fact that the division we have in society in general (which we already had pre-covid) tends to grow deeper, the longer this thing drags on.

You're forced to choose sides: either for or against the whole thing as those loudest are usually the ones in one camp or the other. Something which can be observed on this forum quite well, also...
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I wasn't there for most of the first one, I'd travelled back to the UK shortly before (to see a Worakls gig that never was and caught covid that night instead, wasn't quite the weekend I had planned!). I ended up being locked down here and didn't get back to Germany for 6 weeks. I think the looming election isn't helping with the politicking either.
 
FlatErik said:
I would cry if it was my homecountry.
But it already baffled me you didn't really care about politicians lying to the German people about the probability of so many deaths, just to keep them under control.
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Looking at the outcome in the first wave versus the second, it seems they made the right call - so whether you like it or not their tactics probably saved many lives getting people to comply with behavioural change through any means they could. I'm sure if there was any other effective way given the starting point in the West at the outbreak of the pandemic, they would have chosen it but the reality very likely is there wasn't.
 
2H76 said:
Starmer (leader of the opposition) calling for a fire-break lockdown obvr the October half-term, which he was ignored and we continued with the tiers#
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I seem to recall Wales did that and when they opened up again afterwards they experienced one of the worst and fastest surges in the UK. It didn't work - would've taken weeks and weeks to suppress it given how open everything was at that time.

On another note - Guardian reports

"

Daily rise in Covid cases in Netherlands highest since January​

New Covid cases in the Netherlands rose by more than 9,000 in 24 hours, the highest level since early January, figures show.
The National Institute for Health recorded 9,648 cases, indicating a rising trend just days before plans to ease stringent lockdown rules.

I'm sure caving in to the "freedom fighters" just as rates finally surge is going to do wonders for containment of Covid in Holland :rolleyes: Another own goal incoming 🤷‍♂️
 
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kimajy said:
Looking at the outcome in the first wave versus the second, it seems they made the right call - so whether you like it or not their tactics probably saved many lives getting people to comply with behavioural change through any means they could. I'm sure if there was any other effective way given the starting point in the West at the outbreak of the pandemic, they would have chosen it but the reality very likely is there wasn't.
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A government that is purposely lying and misleading it's citizens with false death toll predictions to keep them locked up is NEVER the right call.
 
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kimajy said:

Daily rise in Covid cases in Netherlands highest since January​

New Covid cases in the Netherlands rose by more than 9,000 in 24 hours, the highest level since early January, figures show.
The National Institute for Health recorded 9,648 cases, indicating a rising trend just days before plans to ease stringent lockdown rules.

I'm sure caving in to the "freedom fighters" just as rates finally surge is going to do wonders for containment of Covid in Holland :rolleyes: Another own goal incoming 🤷‍♂️
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  • Cases going up, not that strange with our new test-based society;
  • Hospital numbers going down;
  • Vaccination now finally up to speed;
  • Our National Institute of Health informed the government they expect a steady decline in the beginning of may;
  • This fake "easing" of the lockdown rules consists of letting go of the evening curfew, a ridiculous measure that hasn't done anything for the numbers in the last few weeks and opening of terraces for 2 people per table from 12:00 to 18:00 and starts April 28th.
Nice fearporn from The Guardian. Countries love to point the finger at other countries, it's like virtue signaling on a national level.
 
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kimajy said:
I seem to recall Wales did that and when they opened up again afterwards they experienced one of the worst and fastest surges in the UK. It didn't work - would've taken weeks and weeks to suppress it given how open everything was at that time.

On another note - Guardian reports

"

Daily rise in Covid cases in Netherlands highest since January​

New Covid cases in the Netherlands rose by more than 9,000 in 24 hours, the highest level since early January, figures show.
The National Institute for Health recorded 9,648 cases, indicating a rising trend just days before plans to ease stringent lockdown rules.

I'm sure caving in to the "freedom fighters" just as rates finally surge is going to do wonders for containment of Covid in Holland :rolleyes: Another own goal incoming
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Yeah your right about the firebreak here in Wales. It was not long enough to be impactful and there was a massive spike in cases therefore after.

I think that accounts for the tentative approach taken with the easing of our restrictions this time around.
 
Some of these posts are just mesmerising, must be the only one who enjoys reading the sheer absurdity of some of this haha

one thing that intrigues me most about elrow’s argument is - what could the motivation for governments possibly be for them to force uneccesary lockdowns or vaccine passports etc on their populations? What incentive could they possibly have? Has only weakened just about every leader I can think of apart from 1 or 2 very notable exceptions.
 
FlatErik said:
  • Cases going up, not that strange with our new test-based society;
  • Hospital numbers going down;
  • Vaccination now finally up to speed;
  • Our National Institute of Health informed the government they expect a steady decline in the beginning of may;
  • This fake "easing" of the lockdown rules consists of letting go of the evening curfew, a ridiculous measure that hasn't done anything for the numbers in the last few weeks and opening of terraces for 2 people per table from 12:00 to 18:00 and starts April 28th.
Nice fearporn from The Guardian. Countries love to point the finger at other countries, it's like virtue signaling on a national level.
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Hospital numbers go up some weeks after new cases are detected. Deaths longer still after, unless enough have been vaccinated and had their 3-4 weeks to build up immunity afterwards otherwise getting jabbed does nothing to reduce symptoms. So there's a considerable drag on effectiveness of vaccinations.

The easing of lockdown rules doesn't sound 'fake' to me - there are 2 restrictions being lifted there. Curfews have been used right across Europe but not in UK. They likely reduce casual mixing - we didn't need them because people were banned from meeting indoors (actually we still are). It really does wind you up when people point out the case rises that accompany weak quasi-lockdowns instead of tough ones doesn't it ?
 
Crawleytown said:
one thing that intrigues me most about elrow’s argument is - what could the motivation for governments possibly be for them to force uneccesary lockdowns or vaccine passports etc on their populations? What incentive could they possibly have? Has only weakened just about every leader I can think of apart from 1 or 2 very notable exceptions.
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Was just going to post something similar!!
 
Speaking to Doctors at work from India, parts of the healthcare system there have completely broken down. At least 8 hospitals have no oxygen, the results of that will be horrifying

I said on here ages ago the outcome of no lockdown is people dying in car parks or told to die at home. That's Delhi today

Fearporn obviously. Please no quoting me, not interested
 
Springal said:
Just like the flu season 🤷🏽‍♂️

Big move by U.K. Gov to put India on the red list. It seems we are learning our lesson
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Yeah although they have been dragging their heels.
Apparently since end of feb when knew about it up to 7th April, around 300k people have flown in direct from India with just the normal quarantine at home thing. 😳

Hopefully UK lockdown restrictions meant that not a too big a deal.
 
kimajy said:
Hospital numbers go up some weeks after new cases are detected. Deaths longer still after, unless enough have been vaccinated and had their 3-4 weeks to build up immunity afterwards otherwise getting jabbed does nothing to reduce symptoms. So there's a considerable drag on effectiveness of vaccinations.

The easing of lockdown rules doesn't sound 'fake' to me - there are 2 restrictions being lifted there. Curfews have been used right across Europe but not in UK. They likely reduce casual mixing - we didn't need them because people were banned from meeting indoors (actually we still are). It really does wind you up when people point out the case rises that accompany weak quasi-lockdowns instead of tough ones doesn't it ?
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Please believe the Guardian instead of the National Health Institute of the country it writes about to make their own situation look better 👍

And if you think curfews have done anything good ...anywhere....or banning people meeting indoors has been a measure that people listened too, you're blinded. Curfews just made stuff worse. People went to each others homes before the curfew started and had parties or sleepovers till the end of the curfew. It winds me up when people swallow everything their government tells them blindly out of fear for something that we should not be scared.
 
FlatErik said:
Please believe the Guardian instead of the National Health Institute of the country it writes about to make their own situation look better 👍

And if you think curfews have done anything good ...anywhere....or banning people meeting indoors has been a measure that people listened too, you're blinded. Curfews just made stuff worse. People went to each others homes before the curfew started and had parties or sleepovers till the end of the curfew. It winds me up when people swallow everything their government tells them blindly out of fear for something that we should not be scared.
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I love the way you listen to scientists / 'national health institutes' when it suits your argument, but they are just scientists ruining lives when it doesn't fit your narrative
 
FlatErik said:
And if you think curfews have done anything good ...anywhere....or banning people meeting indoors has been a measure that people listened too, you're blinded. Curfews just made stuff worse. People went to each others homes before the curfew started and had parties or sleepovers till the end of the curfew.
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All people, or just a few selfish pillocks?

Just because some people have broken gathering and social distancing rules, it doesn't mean they haven't helped overall.
 
Also - lets be honest this discussion is pointless, everyone has a view and likely it won't change. And guess what no-one on this thread can change anything. Coupled with the fact that from what I can tell you are the only resident from the Netherlands and I reckon no-one else really cares about what is / isn't going on in that country. You seem to think everyone is in the same scenario as your country when in fact many countries are coming out of restrictions, high rates of vaccinated residents etc. You're basically the man stood alone in the street shouting at the pigeons. Even when residents of other countries correct you about what is happening in their country you seem to ignore this or tell them they are wrong :spank:
 
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