☣ Coronavirus ☣

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2H76 said:
I read that the vaccines prevent "long covid" - dunno if there's been enough time for that to be proven yet? If anyone has any links that would be appreciated.
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We have no evidence of it. They reduce severity of disease and prevent ICU/hospital admission / death in most cases but there is not yet any steer on whether long Covid is still a risk from mild disease after vaccination. Long Covid can hit you even after mild disease, although the higest profile cases featured in the media relate to people who ended up in the ICU. There are others who got mild disease which progressed to severe debilitation. It's just one of the reasons I am still being very cautious having had one vaccination all the way back in February. I would very much like to know the answer too !!!
 
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not much to add to what others have written but I would invite Flat Erick and other forum libertarians to provide examples of their model society, because to me it all reeks a bit of tea party USA. I certainly think there is a strong case for opposing government meddling in individual freedoms (sex, drugs, offensive tweets etc) but when it comes to something as existential as the last year (the biggest threat to humanity since 1945) then we need to be on the same page, which is why we have y'know laws and stuff. hopefully before too long the major battle will be won and we can get back to arguing about the more pressing issues - DJs, inflatable bananas and the state of traffic on the San Rafael road
 
cunninghamali said:
@FlatErik really think you should think before you speak, really?? "long covid ghost story!!" so all these people that have long covid symptoms are lying or exaggerating....

you can't see or believe anything unless it affects you directly
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Long covid symptoms are the same symptoms some people have after a heavy influenza. Also, people who go into ICU always have a really long time recovering, no matter the reason. So I did not state anyone is lying....just that there is no such thing as long covid.
 
Moha said:
Shut the f**k up.
A very close relative is still struggling to walk, to breathe.........
Young, healthy, non smoker........
I am walking him every morning with this :
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Sucks for your relative. Wish him all the best.
But that could have happened with a heavy influenza or pneumonia too. There are even headlines from 2018 to be found here in The Netherlands saying "surprisingly long recovery after heavy influenza this year". It has nothing to do with covid. The term long-covid was effective to keep the fear going, just as the term 'variants.'
 
FlatErik said:
Long covid symptoms are the same symptoms some people have after a heavy influenza. Also, people who go into ICU always have a really long time recovering, no matter the reason. So I did not state anyone is lying....just that there is no such thing as long covid.
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Yes, it happens with other viruses too, but it's still linked to covid in these cases. People are experiencing these symptoms because they have had covid.
 
FlatErik said:
Sucks for your relative. Wish him all the best.
But that could have happened with a heavy influenza or pneumonia too. There are even headlines from 2018 to be found here in The Netherlands saying "surprisingly long recovery after heavy influenza this year". It has nothing to do with covid. The term long-covid was effective to keep the fear going, just as the term 'variants.'
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I know someone who has the same problem. Walks behind a rollator , and cannot work anymore. ZNS is damaged. Typical for some Covid cases.
Covid is someting different than a flu. Any Idiot compared the viruus with a flu virus , its similar they told. A housecat is a cat and a lion is a cat. I know : I dont want to meet a lion who is angry. With a housecat its no problem. Both are the same species
 
2H76 said:
I read that the vaccines prevent "long covid" - dunno if there's been enough time for that to be proven yet? If anyone has any links that would be appreciated.
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Some new research is showing vaccination can "reset" people with long covid t-cells and reduce symptoms. 👏

www.wired.co.uk

Vaccines are making some long Covid sufferers feel better

After months of recurring symptoms, some long Covid patients are reporting that their symptoms ease after getting a jab. This might not be as unlikely as it sounds
www.wired.co.uk www.wired.co.uk
 
Let's have some good news, the Portugal stats are very good indeed, and I would expect they would open up to UK tourists with few issues. Must add that witht heir close links to Brazil, clearly the Brazilian variant isn't much of an issue there.
www.worldometers.info

Portugal COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Portugal Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
 
Tourist said:
I would invite Flat Erick and other forum libertarians to provide examples of their model society
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I consider myself fairly libertarian. The issue I have is that there is no "model society". To me the first principal of that assumption is wrong. Your heaven can be my hell, or vice versa. I am not foolish enough to think that we can have modern civilization without a functioning government and laws governing individuals, but it needs to be as small and unobtrusive as possible.

The idea is that a a government that feels it has the right to keep you confined to you home for a week due to an emergency can arbitrarily extend that emergency or expand the definition of that emergency. The government, like any organism exists to continue its existence, not necessarily serve you.

I cannot give any example of a model society where people are "libertarian free", but I can give dozens of examples where strong centralized governments have overstepped bounds, oppressed people.

Anyway, I just got to work, so I cant continue my rant :p, maybe we start another thread or meet up at Salinas and discuss over the 'peace pipe'.
 
CasaNegron said:
The idea is that a a government that feels it has the right to keep you confined to you home for a week due to an emergency can arbitrarily extend that emergency or expand the definition of that emergency. The government, like any organism exists to continue its existence, not necessarily serve you.
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How often does that happen in western society? This is a once in a century (?) pandemic. To quote another poster, that sounds a bit like fear porn.

TBH, I'd be more worried about the power of corporations than the power of democratically elected government . In fact, when governments go corrupt, it's often due to corporations/big money.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
How often does that happen in western society? This is a once in a century (?) pandemic. To quote another poster, that sounds a bit like fear porn.

TBH, I'd be more worried about the power of corporations than the power of democratically elected government . In fact, when governments go corrupt, it's often due to corporations/big money.
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I agree, this is a novel situation but you only get one chance. You must keep power accountable and keep them transparent (a short leash). "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".

To me, there is no difference between a corporation and a government. They are two species of superorganism. Like a beehive or anthill...
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Yes, it happens with other viruses too, but it's still linked to covid in these cases. People are experiencing these symptoms because they have had covid.
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Okay we can agree on that then. Are we calling it long-influenza? long-pneumonia? long-virus-x?
No..the media came up with the term 'long-covid' because it works as scare tactics.
 
CasaNegron said:
I consider myself fairly libertarian. The issue I have is that there is no "model society". To me the first principal of that assumption is wrong. Your heaven can be my hell, or vice versa. I am not foolish enough to think that we can have modern civilization without a functioning government and laws governing individuals, but it needs to be as small and unobtrusive as possible.

The idea is that a a government that feels it has the right to keep you confined to you home for a week due to an emergency can arbitrarily extend that emergency or expand the definition of that emergency. The government, like any organism exists to continue its existence, not necessarily serve you.

I cannot give any example of a model society where people are "libertarian free", but I can give dozens of examples where strong centralized governments have overstepped bounds, oppressed people.

Anyway, I just got to work, so I cant continue my rant :p, maybe we start another thread or meet up at Salinas and discuss over the 'peace pipe'.
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I'm not massively pro or anti government on any particular level. I've had my own problems with one particular government agency in the UK where it's the bureaucracy rather than the politics that frustrates me. I however think these are exceptional times where the normal rules and ideologies don't apply though... which is probably why I come across authoritarian at times, but for what I consider noble reasons.

*Yes to Salinas ! :)
 
FlatErik said:
Okay we can agree on that then. Are we calling it long-influenza? long-pneumonia? long-virus-x?
No..the media came up with the term 'long-covid' because it works as scare tactics.
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personally I find it crazy that one year later, you are still making comparisons to influenza when talking about covid.

influenza: in a regular year 1 billion get it worldwide and between 300k and 600k die (WHO figures).
covid: in just over a year, 140m infections and 3m deaths.

no one doubts that there are cases where people suffer for a prolonged time after influenza (same as no one doubts that indeed people die from it). I couldn't find an actual % though of how many people is and that makes me think it must actually be RARE (that's also what all the texts suggested, but I was looking for a number).

with covid, the estimates of how many people have long lasting issues after they've had covid (see how easy you can avoid using 'fear porn') reach anywhere between 10% and a whopping 50%, some studies even say up to 70%. here's a good link to it. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173

so if you do a calculation of how many infected people we currently have worldwide and, even if it is just 10% and not the 50% some of the studies say, it is a MASSIVE number of people that will still suffer. the comparison to the influenza long haulers (another way to describe it without using any fear inducing words) is just in no relation.

I'm sorry to say this so bluntly, but the way you go about this subject (long covid is a ghost story) is so insensitive and soulless. we all want our freedom back soon, but today you're in such a splendid form that so far even your usual supporters are surprisingly quiet.


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a bit of good news

- a day without any newly detected covid cases here on ibiza and formentera
- hospital and ICU occupation on a very low level now

and this is the interesting bit: the president of the balearic autonomy as well as the one from valencia have requested that the PCR tests for tourists be free this summer and get paid by european funds. I don't think that idea will make it, but it would be nice wouldn't it?
 
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