FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Oh I did mention Brazil, but you clearly didn't read my post.
☣ Coronavirus ☣
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So you’re saying that because they didn’t ‘lockdown’ last summer , but are ‘locked down now’ that somehow that is better? Surely that defeats your argument that they did the wrong thing now if they are having to take stricter measures now.
And you say I am focusing on 1 area - errr yes the capital is pretty significant?
It sounds like actually you should be using the U.K. to back up your arguments perhaps
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
I don't live in the UK so I'm comparing it with my own situation in The Netherlands.
Are you implying those local measures...advises...are a lockdown? Then we are on a different page. They were never locked down, not then and not now and I think in time we all ...including our governments...will come to realize we should have done the same. There will be a time governments will say: we should never do this again.
There is no evidence lockdowns and shutting down your economy gives advantage over basic measures such as social distancing and mostly working from home.
Sassette
Active Member
ok I can only find one mention of Brasil and you say it’s not that much of a problem for 1000s per day to die because they have a big population .. what the actual F ? Honestly, I think you need to check in for some help for your mental health .. the thing is you sound like this idiot Laurence Fox with all this Freedom bollocks ... we are in a global health crisis and some of us who are not huge narcissists don’t think the world revolves around us are happy to sit tight until things improve
You seem to be suggesting Sweden is the model to follow, but the restrictions they’ve had since February in place until May 2021 seem at odd with the ‘living life’ and ‘freedom’ thing you talk about so much.
My point is based on time actually the U.K.would be a better example to use because I think we’ve had far more time of less restrictions than Stockholm since last summer
"Lockdowns" are just social-distancing enshrined into official policy
This is neccesary, because "advising" social distancing (or anything, see: seatbelts, vehicle speed) does not work
Because there are too many selfish and/or stupid people who think the advice/rules don't apply to them
You still get these people with laws in place, but at least they are accountable, unlike if there had just been "advice"
The argument that we should be left to our devices to decide what is moral or safe is a lovely idea, but unfortunately complete fantasy. If it were possible, they would little need for any laws at all
This is neccesary, because "advising" social distancing (or anything, see: seatbelts, vehicle speed) does not work
Because there are too many selfish and/or stupid people who think the advice/rules don't apply to them
You still get these people with laws in place, but at least they are accountable, unlike if there had just been "advice"
The argument that we should be left to our devices to decide what is moral or safe is a lovely idea, but unfortunately complete fantasy. If it were possible, they would little need for any laws at all
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kimajy
Well-Known Member
The wave of infections was behind UK so they had an opportunity to vaccinate the most vulnerable before rates soared. Same effect as regard deaths applies in UK. That's because they vaccinated priority elderly groups fast,. The fact is ICU patients in Sweden still soared and that is a big issue .... not least for those patients ! The consequences of ICU admission even if your life is saved can be long lasting. That's before the elephant in the room of the growing 'scrap heap' of long Covid casualties is glazed over.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Nobody is eager to "give away" freedoms but there are times when they ought to be voluntarily set aside for the good of the whole. Since on the whole people cannot be trusted to behave in a manner which puts the whole before the individual (without being personal, you are a prime example), it is necessary for Governments to impose societal restrictions. Your problem is a deep mistrust of Governments - yet so many have handed over virtual control of their information and data to the likes of Microsoft and Amazon in exchange for a convenient life. Now it can't be got back. It's all smoke and mirrors.
There are always restrictions on freedoms. I don;t have the right to trespass on another's land, or to enter a military base. These restrictions are there to protect the security of everyone. There are many other examples - it is simply a matter of the nature and degree of controls in response to threats and circumstances.
A year is nothing in the context of a pandemic. Just look at the plague .... or even the Second World War for that matter. It's a miracle of modern science that we're even in a position to contemplate resumption of previous "freedoms" so soon.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Long covid is a ghost story. We will forget about long Covid quickly after this ends, we have seen similar cases in the past with people having long term issues after influenza too. Now everyone with a few weeks of fatigue to rare cases of lung problems a few months after covid gets thrown on the 'long covid heap'. It's a blown up thing to make the young people scared when they discovered they won't die from covid.
Never said it's not much of a problem. You're making up words I never used. That's the framing you probably want to use on me. I said that it's not that strange to have 1000s of people dying from Covid with their population.
Please stick to worrying about your own mental health, not mine
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree.
Lockdowns are more than that. Lockdown (apparently...looking at what our governments did) are closing public places, closing shops, closing hospitality sector, evening curfews, enforcing facemasks, even closing schools and sports completely seperating kids from their friends etc.
(but hey, this is all about me...I'm the prime example of an individual wanting his freedom to party back, hence the pro lockdown people here)
In time we will evaluate this and I'm confident that working from home, washing hands, stay home with symptoms and perhaps masks in public transport would have worked just fine.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
I used to trust the government. Hell I even worked for the government in the past. But their tunnel vision and mass psychosis reaction in this epidemic (it's not a pandemic anymore) has indeed completely destroyed every bit of understanding, respect and trust I had in my own and other governments. And luckily I'm not alone in this.
There are many different elements of lockdown that I personally disagree with and certainly some governments have gone to the extreme, equally as some haven't done nearly enough. But the overall objective I support
And when you look around and see the % of non-compliance, I shudder to think how things would've looked on the basis of "advice" alone
It goes back to the point, that if governments had acted swiftly and adequately initially and the public complied, we would've been out of this a lot quicker
Instead, the very people protesting and indeed flouting the restrictions the most, are the ones who are responsible for prolonging everybody's pain
Thankfully, the more we vaccinate in the UK, the less negative impact these bad faith actors are having
I don't like generalising, but it's staggering how many people who are anti-lockdown, also happen to be covid-deniers and anti-vax. The Venn diagram is almost a circle
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so I /we have taken the decision to move our family holiday (that was all ready moved from last year ...sigh) Turkey late july to next year , mainly due to the fact final balance is due , not a lot of choice really , if its a green country go but then have to pay for 4 pcr tests costs not confirmed but seems to be any where from £60 each upto £150.....if its amber 2 pcr test per person and 10 days home quarantine and we would have to go or cancel and loose full balance .....or if red country don't go get full refund .......
we chose move it for nearly free , on the bases that best case if green that's at least another £240 pcr test's (fam of 4) ...... still a little bit too much uncertainty to risk dropping 4k + at this point ...gutted but hopefully even if still traffic light sys in place things will be smoother ...poss pcrs cheaper next year .........Amber not achievable for us both key workers ......
still got Barcelona October very hopeful for this one and fingers cross all hiccups will be sorted by then .....fingers crossed .....
we chose move it for nearly free , on the bases that best case if green that's at least another £240 pcr test's (fam of 4) ...... still a little bit too much uncertainty to risk dropping 4k + at this point ...gutted but hopefully even if still traffic light sys in place things will be smoother ...poss pcrs cheaper next year .........Amber not achievable for us both key workers ......
still got Barcelona October very hopeful for this one and fingers cross all hiccups will be sorted by then .....fingers crossed .....
2H76
Well-Known Member
Back here - overjoyed that I'be bought ny first post-pandemic ticket for a football game, firts Saturday of July; the "gate" islimited to 2000.
Over there - just wish someone would confirm that the islands are in the green light system, and just what, exactly, is required to go there, how you go about getting it and how it's registered. However the Majorca daily Bulletin suggests queues of "up to ten hours" as people are processed. That's flaming ridiculous, the prosessing should be done before you get on the aircraft, surely?
Over there - just wish someone would confirm that the islands are in the green light system, and just what, exactly, is required to go there, how you go about getting it and how it's registered. However the Majorca daily Bulletin suggests queues of "up to ten hours" as people are processed. That's flaming ridiculous, the prosessing should be done before you get on the aircraft, surely?
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Oh so now months of disability and having to learn to walk again are a ghost story. I'm done debating with you on this .... you just want the world to be how you had it before and anything which stands in the way of that has to be rubbished and dismissed. Really, I'm pretty tolerant of a wide variety of views but this pandemic has changed me. I don't wish ill on anyone but objectively have to say you're one of those people who has to be a victim yourself to take them on board. It might not happen with Covid in your case but I'm a firm believer in fate and the dangers of tempting it !
The definition of pandemic is "an epidemic occurring worldwide, or over a very wide area, crossing international boundaries and usually affecting a large number of people" and a true pandemic occurs when transmission occurs simultaneously worldwide or over a large area. In what way is Covid not a pandemic anymore ? What has shocked Westerners is that the freedoms they thought they had are actually very fragile ones that are susceptible to any kind of major shock. Be that 9-11, a pandemic respiratory illness, or perhaps a nuclear attack. These are privileges (as I said before) that will only prevail for so long as major threats are kept at bay and contained. That isn't going to change any time soon.
Moha
Well-Known Member
Shut the f**k up.
A very close relative is still struggling to walk, to breathe.........
Young, healthy, non smoker........
I am walking him every morning with this :
CasaNegron
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's bullshit. We use a digital registration for visitors coming to our islands. You do it online, pre flight and upon arrival you flash the confirmation email from your phone or printed. It makes a bit of a line, but it moves quick.
cunninghamali
Well-Known Member
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