☣ Coronavirus ☣

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FlatErik said:
Covid vaccine passports are being rapidly approved as the entrance to social life everywhere. A legal proposal for this was just approved in The Netherlands. I see lots of people here talking about the vaccines and a Covid-19 approved stamp as the way forward.
My view on the current situation in short where I try not to step on anybody's toes:

First off, I never denied Covid. It's a serious problem for a small target group of people. While I am opposed to lockdowns, I can understand why they were implemented in the beginning (!!!) of the pandemic. However lockdowns have lasted way way too long...it's not one size fits all.
Now we have vaccines and tests. I have not taken any test yet and I am not sure yet If I would take the vaccine. Not because I think it has a Bill Gates microchip, but because I am not part of that aforementioned target group at risk. Why would I be in a hurry to take a vaccin where we know so little about at this point in time? This is my proper right, in the light of privacy, integrity and self-determination.
Again, never denied Covid, but as you all might have read I have serious doubts about what we have been told by the media and our politicians. We have been scared with all kinds of variants and graphs with death tolls that were unreasonable to maintain fear and keep us abiding the measures. And now we come to this new point in the -no longer a pandemic but endemic-

A society where you need a vaccine passport or negative tests to take part in social life, travel, festivals, bars, pubs, restaurants.

The Covid passport is the facemask 2.0. It shows you're one of the "good people" and it rewards you with entrance to your local pub where you always went freely before this shit...or it rewards you with a flight to Ibiza. If you're not one of the "good people" you will get excluded from the aspects of life that made life worth living in the first place. This is literally just one step away from the social credit system in China. And the thing is...the implementation of this vaccin passport is not necessary for a virus where we have more and more medical control and containment on.
We are accepting false security for false freedom.
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Well within your rights to not take the vaccine just like countries or places or venues will be well within there rights to refuse you entry if they see fit that is the policy required.

There are many countries where vaccines are already necessary so this isn't a new thing, its just the scale of it all.
 
kimajy said:
Bullsh!t. They are at risk when it's circulating in society vaccinated or not. I'm 100% behind driving down incidence across all age groups and controlling the international mobility of the voluntarily unvaccinated using either entry bans or onerous expensive tests and quarantines. But people need the choice to pay for their own on demand.
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If they are at risk anyway...vaccinated or not....why are we doing this?
Right...just accept that this virus is here and get on with life.
Controlling the mobility of unvaccinated people is a really extreme measure.
 
TiffyBennett1 said:
You mentioned travel as well as the others.

Pretty sure you still need a Yellow Fever vaccine to travel to Tanzania these days. And I'm sure there's a bunch of others needed for other places too. Just one of those things IMO
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I mentioned travel indeed. :)
It's what everyone here jumped on.

But my post was about getting accepted into your normal social life, your normal freedom. Travel is part of that but so are festivals, pubs, restaurants, movie theaters. Those are all on the list of places I cannot go to if I don't get the vaccine passport.
To me, that's unacceptable and forcing your society into a system we should not want to live in.
 
FlatErik said:
I mentioned travel indeed. :)
It's what everyone here jumped on.

But my post was about getting accepted into your normal social life, your normal freedom. Travel is part of that but so are festivals, pubs, restaurants, movie theaters. Those are all on the list of places I cannot go to if I don't get the vaccine passport.
To me, that's unacceptable and forcing your society into a system we should not want to live in.
Click to expand...

so what happens when there’s a group of people in an indoor space who refuse to be vaccinated and one of them has covid? Not only put those people in danger but there would be a high chance some of the vaccinated also catch it too and the whole thing starts over again.
 
Browny said:
so what happens when there’s a group of people in an indoor space who refuse to be vaccinated and one of them has covid? Not only put those people in danger but there would be a high chance some of the vaccinated also catch it too and the whole thing starts over again.
Click to expand...
🤷‍♂️
 
FlatErik said:
Covid vaccine passports are being rapidly approved as the entrance to social life everywhere. A legal proposal for this was just approved in The Netherlands. I see lots of people here talking about the vaccines and a Covid-19 approved stamp as the way forward.
My view on the current situation in short where I try not to step on anybody's toes:

First off, I never denied Covid. It's a serious problem for a small target group of people. While I am opposed to lockdowns, I can understand why they were implemented in the beginning (!!!) of the pandemic. However lockdowns have lasted way way too long...it's not one size fits all.
Now we have vaccines and tests. I have not taken any test yet and I am not sure yet If I would take the vaccine. Not because I think it has a Bill Gates microchip, but because I am not part of that aforementioned target group at risk. Why would I be in a hurry to take a vaccin where we know so little about at this point in time? This is my proper right, in the light of privacy, integrity and self-determination.
Again, never denied Covid, but as you all might have read I have serious doubts about what we have been told by the media and our politicians. We have been scared with all kinds of variants and graphs with death tolls that were unreasonable to maintain fear and keep us abiding the measures. And now we come to this new point in the -no longer a pandemic but endemic-

A society where you need a vaccine passport or negative tests to take part in social life, travel, festivals, bars, pubs, restaurants.

The Covid passport is the facemask 2.0. It shows you're one of the "good people" and it rewards you with entrance to your local pub where you always went freely before this shit...or it rewards you with a flight to Ibiza. If you're not one of the "good people" you will get excluded from the aspects of life that made life worth living in the first place. This is literally just one step away from the social credit system in China. And the thing is...the implementation of this vaccin passport is not necessary for a virus where we have more and more medical control and containment on.
We are accepting false security for false freedom.
Click to expand...

I understand the libertarian angle on this and am not hugely comfortable with 'Big Brother' either. It's difficult to disappear off the radar in Spain when everyone by law is mandated to carry their national ID card on them at all times and that can feel oppressive. But it is mainly an abstract and bureaucratic issue though and hardly impedes on your daily life. If anything, the last year provided evidence to me of why we need states and governments, to guarantee our actual survival, which overrides normal political objections. I think it's dangerous to compare liberal western societies with total dictatorships. You cannot compare your extensive freedoms and privileges living in the EU with some guy in Guangdong province who is completely controlled in every aspect of his life, almost at times a victim of social engineering. but regardless of where you are, societies function where we look out for each other. None of us can be autonomous in this. You approach it all as a consumer and not a member of an actual community, which is why I think you have provoked such a backlash...

*that Danish news story is worrying, granted (albeit inconclusive thus far)
 
Still other positive factors that will see us come out of this like improvements in treatment for people that would likely be hospitalised.

www.bloomberg.com

New Biotechnology Covid Treatment Reduces Risk of Death

GlaxoSmithKline Plc and Vir Biotechnology Inc. said their Covid-19 antibody therapy showed a significant reduction of hospitalization and death for at-risk patients in an advanced-stage trial that progressed faster than expected.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
 
FlatErik said:
I mentioned travel indeed. :)
It's what everyone here jumped on.

But my post was about getting accepted into your normal social life, your normal freedom. Travel is part of that but so are festivals, pubs, restaurants, movie theaters. Those are all on the list of places I cannot go to if I don't get the vaccine passport.
To me, that's unacceptable and forcing your society into a system we should not want to live in.
Click to expand...
Well flaming well get one then.
There's an absolute ton of stuff we have to have to keep our "freedom" as I have already alluded to.
The sooner folk are vaxxed up, the sooner covid becomes a thing of the past, the sooner we can all ruddy well get on that plane and have our hell-we've-earned-it-so-much holidays.
 
I really want to go early June, but will have only had one jab by then. Next one could be end of July and then half the season is gone.

My guess is Ibiza will demand both jabs before we can enter.
 
I struggled coming to terms with how an unvaccinated person is any threat to ones that have had it, if I didn't respect our health care system then I wouldn't be rushing to get a vax if im honest. I will go when im called although I too am not keen on the fact we are pressurised to do so, travel is massive to us and the fact its coming to the point its do this or you can't that doesn't sit right with me however I understand there is more elements to this so its just a pill that needs to be swallowed
 
Only reason UK and the rest of Europe following has a clear plan, with many caveats, to coming out of this mess is the uptake in the successful vaccines. That will need to continue to happen across all age groups to continue that trend.

The significant amount of data available already that will satisfy a massive amount of variables is overwhelmingly positive.
 
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