☣ Coronavirus ☣

Status
Not open for further replies.
ElrowLovers said:
A lockdown to me is keeping people at home with curfews, max distance travel from their home, max visitors in your own home, closing shops, closing bars, closing restaurants.

The basic measures I'm talking about are working from home, social distancing, washing hands.

The added effect of the first mentioned lockdown-measures, strict and inhumane measures, on top of the basic measures is researched in 10 different countries and proven to be nihil.
Click to expand...
So you think that the difference in amount of hospitalisations with COVID between working from home / social distancing / washing hands and seeing as many people as you want, opening pubs, bars, restaurants is tiny?

In that case why did the UK See a big spike early January, after relaxing restrictions over Christmas etc?
 
ElrowLovers said:
.

The added effect of the first mentioned lockdown-measures, strict and inhumane measures, on top of the basic measures is researched in 10 different countries and proven to be nihil.
Click to expand...

proven
/ˈpruːv(ə)n,ˈprəʊv(ə)n/

adjective

  1. demonstrated by evidence or argument to be true or existing.
    "a proven ability to work hard"
 
People who think lockdowns are inhumane or like North Korea.

tenor.gif


North Korea would let you die in your home waiting for an ambulance or just not admit you to hospital 😬

We all think they are shite though.

Why the R rate dropping during lockdown (now under 1). Why it go up when households mix?

Why countries that implement restrictions early don't have an over runned hospitals?

Hint, it's not this:🤣
giphy.gif
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Doesn't matter who you can find to back up spurious claims about lockdowns not working.

Direct evidence of countries hospital admissions and infection rates go down when lockdown introduced (with few weeks lag). Q.E.D lockdowns work at controlling spread.

Respiratory disease spread by people contact will always be reduced by lockdowns and reduced person to person contact.

Are they a blunt and crap tool, sure.

Your theories are demonstrably nonsense.

Leave this here 😬

25084a8193ea8fb842c3587dbd99eced.jpg



Ps if anyone disagrees, please explain the data. Why go down when lockdown introduced and up when not - awaits eagerly
Click to expand...
As i've said before it's time we stopped listening to f***ing idiots to give 'balance'. You can have your opinion, your opinion can also be factually wrong.

It seems incredible that we are in here arguing with someone who is frantically sourcing any single person that backs his opinion and thinks that validates it. As always, if I have 100 experts and 99 agree, I can guarantee that the 1 'expert' is wrong, especially when not a single data source has proven it yet just he says or she says, plenty of data proves lockdowns work.
The Sweden argument is an immediate litmus test for an idiot, they didn't carry on as normal. Even when they tried less restrictions they have a ridiculous amount more deaths as their neighbours and Sweden as a nation is much better placed than any country in the world to try it (Highest percentage of population living alone/The population in general are shown to have less social interactions in normal life), so any other country to do it would likely be much worse off. Sweden has had plenty of restrictions in place too, they even brought a law in so that they could close businesses, public transport and limit numbers on any gatherings. It really tells you something that even the most dangerous of idiots stopped trying to promote the Sweden model months back. The head epidemiologist/government that decided to go this way has even admitted it was incorrect ffs 😂😂



I believe the answer to the point about lockdowns is that every thicko says 'well the measures that were in JUST before lockdown were just beginning to work'. Honestly f*** off with that shit 👍.
 
JayDR8 said:
As i've said before it's time we stopped listening to f***ing idiots to give 'balance'. You can have your opinion, your opinion can also be factually wrong.

It seems incredible that we are in here arguing with someone who is frantically sourcing any single person that backs his opinion and thinks that validates it. As always, if I have 100 experts and 99 agree, I can guarantee that the 1 'expert' is wrong, especially when not a single data source has proven it yet just he says or she says, plenty of data proves lockdowns work.
The Sweden argument is an immediate litmus test for an idiot, they didn't carry on as normal. Even when they tried less restrictions they have a ridiculous amount more deaths as their neighbours and Sweden as a nation is much better placed than any country in the world to try it (Highest percentage of population living alone/The population in general are shown to have less social interactions in normal life), so any other country to do it would likely be much worse off. Sweden has had plenty of restrictions in place too, they even brought a law in so that they could close businesses, public transport and limit numbers on any gatherings. It really tells you something that even the most dangerous of idiots stopped trying to promote the Sweden model months back. The head epidemiologist/government that decided to go this way has even admitted it was incorrect ffs 😂😂



I believe the answer to the point about lockdowns is that every thicko says 'well the measures that were in JUST before lockdown were just beginning to work'. Honestly f*** off with that shit 👍.
Click to expand...
Next up, I have scientific evidence the earth is flat...
Sun_tmb.gif


(Satellite pic NASA do NOT want you to see 🤣)
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Next up, I have scientific evidence the earth is flat...
Sun_tmb.gif


(Satellite pic NASA do NOT want you to see 🤣)
Click to expand...
I'm in.



We're currently dropping cases at a rate of 25% a week. Can you imagine how good this and the below would be if lockdowns did work? 😂


Keep dropping like that and we'll see the below (Not including vaccine impacts on transmission either) and i'm comfortable with saying we'll hit double figure deaths in March, most likely quite early on.

5/2 - 19k

12/2 - 14k

19/2 - 11k

26/2 - 8k

5/3 - 6k

12/3 - 4.5k

19/3 - 3.3k

26/3 - 2.5k

2/4 - 1.9k
 
Neo95gt said:
Lockdowns work, but some of the rules in severe lockdowns are unnecessary.

Completely closing gyms, restaurants, stores, hair salons, etc. does absolutely nothing. All of them can remain open with restrictions.

Not letting people go outside......what? That’s North Korea stuff.
Click to expand...

in spain, closing the inside bit of bars and restaurants and only letting them operate on terraces was the measure that easily was most effective. too many hospitality places simply have very bad ventilation and this coupled with the fact that you will be without a mask in there for quite some time is an explosive mixture.

I do agree regarding 'not letting people go outside'. but every single government in europe that had implemented something like that in the first wave (I think it was mainly spain, to a lesser extent france and italy) has since changed their approach and there is no stay at home order in place as far as I know - even the strictest laws active are letting you out to practice.


@ElrowLovers - I truly can't believe you're being serious about sweden, but I'm done arguing.
 
I'm also done arguing.

We all live in democracies so we will all get a chance to decide if our leaders were correct in locking down or not (except all mainstream opposition parties, in Europe at least, also advocate lockdown, not letting old people die etc so 🤔)
 
Portugal not looking in a good way 😕

Combination of no restrictions for xmas/new year has lead to uk type surge in Jan.

Hospitals literally not able to cope.

Lockdown introduced mid Jan but looks like not been adhered to by a fair proportion.

Guess that's the "alternative"
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Portugal not looking in a good way 😕

Combination of no restrictions for xmas/new year has lead to uk type surge in Jan.

Hospitals literally not able to cope.

Lockdown introduced mid Jan but looks like not been adhered to by a fair proportion.

Guess that's the "alternative"
Click to expand...
Crazy talk
 
Portugal looks like having similar issues to Italy's first wave - I've already seen stories of Germany flying over equipment and medical staff. Also rumours that the our Europa League game will not be played over two legs because we won't be able to fly into and out of Portugal.

Rumours in the press today that the UK are pushing forward with a vaccination passport with agreements already in place with Greece to accept them over the summer. Can imagine this being an EU wide scheme by summer because there's so many countries that rely on tourism and if there's a giant group of Brit's told they can escape for a week abroad then businesses will be falling over themselves to facilitate it.
 
stivi said:
I truly can't believe you're being serious about sweden, but I'm done arguing.
Click to expand...

I truly dislike that Sweden is always portrayed as some crazy country killing their citizens. Lets take a look at the numbers (Source: European Commission, as of January 31):

6C63272D-D0CB-4689-A6B8-BB84FB34F3F9.jpeg
Sweden never closed hospitality (and skipped loads of other measures in place in other countries). While a lot of other restrictions are in place, they are the only country in Europe that chose not to go all in with lockdowns.

Have they done any better because of it? No. But they also havent done much worse in terms of deaths (see above).

Would this work in other countries? Probably not. You need a specific set of conditions (good healthcare, rule of law, certain type of society) for that. If Spain went the Swedish way it would be mental.

But when I look at this chart, I am impressed. Achieving the same results without draconian intervention is no small feet. I am not saying that lockdowns do not work. But in some countries, they are not needed in full force. Credit due, not hate.
 
Tadas said:
I truly dislike that Sweden is always portrayed as some crazy country killing their citizens. Lets take a look at the numbers (Source: European Commission, as of January 31):

View attachment 11447
Sweden never closed hospitality (and skipped loads of other measures in place in other countries). While a lot of other restrictions are in place, they are the only country in Europe that chose not to go all in with lockdowns.

Have they done any better because of it? No. But they also havent done much worse in terms of deaths (see above).

Would this work in other countries? Probably not. You need a specific set of conditions (good healthcare, rule of law, certain type of society) for that. If Spain went the Swedish way it would be mental.

But when I look at this chart, I am impressed. Achieving the same results without draconian intervention is no small feet. I am not saying that lockdowns do not work. But in some countries, they are not needed in full force. Credit due, not hate.
Click to expand...
You need to compare it to its neighbours with similar population distribution and that

www.telegraph.co.uk

Sweden 'got it wrong on herd immunity'

'Wishful thinking' made experts believe country would be better protected against second wave
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

www.news-medical.net

Study compares deaths in Sweden and Norway before and after COVID pandemic

A recent epidemiological study, currently available on the medRxiv preprint server, demonstrates that all-cause mortality was mostly unchanged during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic compared to the previous four years in Norway and Sweden – two countries which took very different...
www.news-medical.net www.news-medical.net
 

Attachments

  • SmartSelect_20210205-204845_Samsung Internet.jpg
    SmartSelect_20210205-204845_Samsung Internet.jpg
    393.7 KB · Views: 4
Something that isn't paywalled. Hate paywalled sites 🤣

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.
journals.sagepub.com journals.sagepub.com

Results: Compared with its Nordic peers, Sweden had a higher incidence rate across all ages, a higher COVID-19-related death rate only partially explained by population demographics, a higher death rate in seniors’ care, and higher all-cause mortality. Sweden had approximately half as much mobility change as its Nordic neighbours
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top