☣ Coronavirus ☣

[FlatErik]

Not done a very good job of being silenced are they

He's being saying this since march last year. This is the first time he gets a full interview in one of our big newspapers.
Like I said, the contrary views finally get more heard.

 

[Hally]

Another Dutch ICU doctor...even better Head of the ICU of the Amsterdam VUMC strongly disagrees.
His entire article in the Dutch paper today is very noteworthy, but this is a quote I wanted to share with you.

“Six hundred patients on the IC and 1600 in the rest of the hospital are currently disrupting an entire population, an entire country. This has been the case for a long time now. And now we have the corona vaccine. Again, there is scarcity, so we have to make clear choices. And here too I am disappointed again. Until now, the Health Council has always advised distributing the first vaccines to the most vulnerable in society. The minister adopted those advice. Yes, the health care workers eventually got a vaccine too, but after a lot of pressure, eh. I find it inconceivable that in such a huge crisis we are the first to distribute our scarce vaccines among 100, 90 and 80 year olds, the target group that hardly or never ends up on the ICU.

I'm still waiting on your cancer plan

 

[kimajy]

find it inconceivable that in such a huge crisis we are the first to distribute our scarce vaccines among 100, 90 and 80 year olds, the target group that hardly or never ends up on the ICU.

Well, they don't end up on ICU because they have a high probability of winding up dead if unvaccinated. So most policy-makers agree you protect those lives first and then move on to address pressure on ICU from the next highest risk groups afterwards. In UK we are likely a week or so away from starting to do just that already. The latest lockdown coupled with an aggressive vaccination procurement and delivery strategy should buy enough time to optimize benefits from the response from a given starting point of high infection.

There is only one reason to argue ditching lockdown and prioritizing ICU dependent age groups over the oldest cohorts and that is the EU's failure to obtain vaccines early enough to save those elderly lives (and the Dutch Government's failure to follow an early procurement path like the UK did on its own). Having thousands of deaths on their conscience for the vaccine decisions they took and caving in to pressure to throw open society again likely does not sit easily with politicians when all they have to do is protract restrictions for a month or so longer.

Perhaps it's time for the Dutch to open their pockets and pay everyone far more compensation to reduce the impact on businesses etc. Then the young can pay for it all for the next few decades in higher taxes etc ? I am sure they will all stop moaning if they get their full salaries covered for a few months.

 

[Springal]

I thought about this more after I posted and it still seems ridiculous to say we should not be vaccinating the elderly first. In the U.K. with 68M people we expect everyone to have been offered a vaccination by May. It’s such a small amount of time and given the time of year who cares really

With 17M in the Netherlands why should there even be a discussion with what order or priority given the small amount of time it would take

 

[Johnny Vodka]

He's being saying this since march last year. This is the first time he gets a full interview in one of our big newspapers.
Like I said, the contrary views finally get more heard.

Those who don't support lockdown(s) have always had a voice, plus you can see it playing out in countries like Brazil and the U.S..

 

[Buckley]

@white_isle_calling Yeah, my general position on everything is that unless I'm the expert, I go with the consensus of experts. So if the broad scientific consensus is that lockdowns work, I'll go with that rather than one or two contratrian experts.

I can understand why our Government's complete inconsistency and downright incompetence, make people question the official narrative, but you only have to scratch the surface of the lockdown sceptism movement to find that it's bunkem.

I might just paste this every few posts. The global consensus among subject matter experts is that lockdowns, masks and vaccinations work. Someone who is not an expert pointing to someone who may be, who disagrees with the consensus, means nothing to me.

 

[Buckley]

Those who don't support lockdown(s) have always had a voice, plus you can see it playing out in countries like Brazil and the U.S..

Indeed. Hearing and seeing people claiming they're being silenced has gone from amusing to tiresome

 

[claretclubber]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/05/uk-minister-defends-delay-over-covid-quarantine-hotels

Probably be able to fly again by the time they get this sorted!

 

[FlatErik]

Perhaps it's time for the Dutch to open their pockets and pay everyone far more compensation to reduce the impact on businesses etc. Then the young can pay for it all for the next few decades in higher taxes etc ? I am sure they will all stop moaning if they get their full salaries covered for a few months.

If you feel the civil unrest and the lack of support for the measures is about money, then you missed the point.

 

[FlatErik]

Those who don't support lockdown(s) have always had a voice, plus you can see it playing out in countries like Brazil and the U.S..

Not in our country. They were neglected and ridiculed. Much like it happens here.

On the absence of lockdowns...you can also see it play out in Sweden.

 

[FlatErik]

I thought about this more after I posted and it still seems ridiculous to say we should not be vaccinating the elderly first. In the U.K. with 68M people we expect everyone to have been offered a vaccination by May. It’s such a small amount of time and given the time of year who cares really

With 17M in the Netherlands why should there even be a discussion with what order or priority given the small amount of time it would take

Because it was always about flattening the curve....relieve the pressure on the ICU.
By prioritizing that specific age group that doesn't even end up on ICU what the heck are we doing then?
Every week a business stays closed is a week closer to bankruptcy, depression, suicide.
But please let's take our time until may.

 

[FlatErik]

In Japan, more people died by suicide last month than from COVID in all of 2020

Experts say this alarming spike is being partially driven by women, who often work in industries most affected by the COVID-19 pandemic.

abc7news.com

"But I don't know anyone personally that committed suicide because of Covid measures"

 

[FlatErik]

I might just paste this every few posts. The global consensus among subject matter experts is that lockdowns, masks and vaccinations work. Someone who is not an expert pointing to someone who may be, who disagrees with the consensus, means nothing to me.

This might be a nice Twitter thread full of source material for you if you're interested in what experts say about lockdowns:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1357366316387155969

 

[Springal]

Because it was always about flattening the curve....relieve the pressure on the ICU.
By prioritizing that specific age group that doesn't even end up on ICU what the heck are we doing then?
Every week a business stays closed is a week closer to bankruptcy, depression, suicide.
But please let's take our time until may.

Why do you constantly ignore in the UK ICU is at breaking point and capacity is dangerously full?

Do you really think if there were not lockdown measures in place that there would be no extra people requiring ICU beds?

 

[MrHullMysterious]

However, full lockdowns (RR=2.47: 95%CI: 1.085.64) and reduced country vulnerability to biological threats (i.e. high scores on the global health security scale for risk environment) (RR=1.55; 95%CI: 1.132.12) were significantly associated with increased patient recovery rates.

also the article seems to be on about mortality. Not about total number of cases overloading ITU . I have sped read it though lol

 

[Springal]

This might be a nice Twitter thread full of source material for you if you're interested in what experts say about lockdowns:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1357366316387155969

For every 'expert' that backs up your views, there are 'experts' that back up the other view point. My point still stands all this moaning when vaccines are here and can be delivered within a whole country within months seems pointless even carrying on this crusade

 

[Hally]

Because it was always about flattening the curve....relieve the pressure on the ICU.
By prioritizing that specific age group that doesn't even end up on ICU what the heck are we doing then?
Every week a business stays closed is a week closer to bankruptcy, depression, suicide.
But please let's take our time until may.

It isn't hard

Vaccinate a huge number of people in their 60s, reduce pressure on ICU , save a moderate amount of lives

Vaccinate a huge number of people in their 80s then 70s, reduce pressure on wards and ambulances and save a huge number of lives

So, you're cancer plan? I'm still trying to have my polite discussion with you. You complain about being 'shouted down' but then wont discuss you're ideas

 

[W_I_C]

On the absence of lockdowns...you can also see it play out in Sweden.

How did that work out again?

 

[Hally]

How did that work out again?

About as well as his plan for cancer care

 

[MrHullMysterious]

Also why did out of lockdown uk cases go up and up and hospitals at point of failure. Month into lockdown and numbers on way down.

Coincidence?

Three times?

And in other countries?