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metropolis said:
I don't want to be kept alive at the age of 90 by my relatives who ultimately can't say goodbye to me out of selfishness ;-)
Thank you for not being my grandson 😜
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Not sure what your post has to do with expecting gran to be taken to hospital if she's seriously ill with some nasty respiratory illness. Hospital staff, even if they don't manage to save a patient, can administer strong pain relief and make them more comfortable/less distressed.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Not sure what your post has to do with expecting gran to be taken to hospital if she's seriously ill with some nasty respiratory illness. Hospital staff, even if they don't manage to save a patient, can administer strong pain relief and make them more comfortable/less distressed.
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I get the feeling he was been sarcastic? 🤭

And typical, its forecast snow for first time here on Sunday, the day I sign up to the elite conspiracy theory and get a 💉 😂
 
Something to brighten the day a little; https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08287e584685d1#block-601bc49c8f08287e584685d1

“A significant return to normality” is on the cards once the most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated, Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies
(Sage) member professor Andrew Hayward told BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme on Thursday.

He said:
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Once the most vulnerable people, particularly those over 50 and those with chronic illnesses, are vaccinated then yes I think we can see a significant return to normality.
That in addition to the fact coronavirus is a seasonal disease, I think will make a big difference and allow us to open up.
I think what we’ll see is a phased opening up as the vaccination levels increase, and then we will be more or less back to normal for the summer, I would imagine.
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I bet that doesn't include overseas travel though. before Xmas I'd have thought my Oct trip to Ibiza was 95% certain, now I put that at 40%. But I'll be happy if by may we are reasonably normal in the UK - a big plus would eb able to fly to the Channel Islands and make them my own little Ibiza.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Not sure what your post has to do with expecting gran to be taken to hospital if she's seriously ill with some nasty respiratory illness. Hospital staff, even if they don't manage to save a patient, can administer strong pain relief and make them more comfortable/less distressed.
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......did I say that, I don't think so. Maybe a misunderstanding because english is not my native language, or you 2 can not follow me,.... hmmm?
So, to continue to torture a very elderly person with a life-threatening disease, with life-sustaining measures, is for me just pure selfishness of the relatives who can not separate.

MrHullMysterious said:
I get the feeling he was been sarcastic? 🤭
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I can't think of anything to say about that, and smylies in such a context are simply tasteless.

..... partly aggresive mood here against contrary opinions !
 
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metropolis said:
......did I say that, I don't think so. Maybe a misunderstanding because english is not my native language, or you 2 can not follow me,.... hmmm?
So, to continue to torture a very elderly person with a life-threatening disease, with life-sustaining measures, is for me just pure selfishness of the relatives who can not separate.
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Really? So after a certain age we should stop trying to treat the elderly? There are examples of very elderly people being treated for covid and surviving. I'm not sure it's selfish to expect doctors to make a reasonable attempt to save a life, no matter what the age. Obviously, there are other things to take into consideration, like quality of life on surviving and the patient's/family's wishes. I think most people are quite reasonable (not selfish) and know when it's time to stop treatment and let go, but not sure that can be determined on age alone.
 
2H76 said:
Something to brighten the day a little; https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08287e584685d1#block-601bc49c8f08287e584685d1
I bet that doesn't include overseas travel though. before Xmas I'd have thought my Oct trip to Ibiza was 95% certain, now I put that at 40%. But I'll be happy if by may we are reasonably normal in the UK - a big plus would eb able to fly to the Channel Islands and make them my own little Ibiza.
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What does 'a significant return to normality' mean?
It does not say a return to normal.

Our government is saying the same, a return to a society as normal as possible, but that is not a return to the world we knew until February 2020.
In our routemap or tier system as you wish even in the best scenario nightclubs and discotheques stay closed, bars close at midnight and every hospitality location can only host 30 people.

So while they do back up big events financially taking place after July 1st such as Awakenings, it seems like symbol politics. The actual full return to normal is nowhere to be seen in governmental documentation.
 
metropolis said:
......did I say that, I don't think so. Maybe a misunderstanding because english is not my native language, or you 2 can not follow me,.... hmmm?
So, to continue to torture a very elderly person with a life-threatening disease, with life-sustaining measures, is for me just pure selfishness of the relatives who can not separate.
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Fully agree.
There is a dutch journalist who writes columns for the biggest newspaper in The Netherlands. She writes about this topic very often and argues that we should learn to accept death as part of life again. That includes choosing to let go the elderly when they catch Covid (or something else) instead of giving them an extra few months. Those extra few months are not even that enjoyable for them because they need to recover from the life sustaining measures you mention. Also, that recovery gets misunderstood for being long-covid or specific Covid-recovery, but it's just what ICU recovery is.

I see what you mean with being selfish, I think you are right and people can't let go of their relatives and we've also come to a point where we think we can manufacture and extend every life at all costs.
 
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Johnny Vodka said:
Really? So after a certain age we should stop trying to treat the elderly? There are examples of very elderly people being treated for covid and surviving. I'm not sure it's selfish to expect doctors to make a reasonable attempt to save a life, no matter what the age. Obviously, there are other things to take into consideration, like quality of life on surviving and the patient's/family's wishes. I think most people are quite reasonable (not selfish) and know when it's time to stop treatment and let go, but not sure that can be determined on age alone.
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The article I translated and posted here a page or two back mentions exactly that. ICU doctors who doubt if the few months of recovering from ICU are worth the effort and if that capacity could be used for other healthcare.

Unfortunately most forum members are busier belittling and ridiculing whatever contrary views or articles get posted here instead of reading it.
 
ElrowLovers said:
The article I translated and posted here a page or two back mentions exactly that. ICU doctors who doubt if the few months of recovering from ICU are worth the effort and if that capacity could be used for other healthcare.

Unfortunately most forum members are busier belittling and ridiculing whatever contrary views or articles get posted here instead of reading it.
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These considerations already exist. My dad has dementia and another (I'm guessing, very) life threatening physical issue, which if he had a longer life expectancy/better quality of life might be operated on. But family and doctors are in agreement that it should just be left alone.

So are some wanting an explicit lowering of the bar of what constitutes an acceptable quality or length of life after recovery?
 
2H76 said:
Something to brighten the day a little; https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08287e584685d1#block-601bc49c8f08287e584685d1




I bet that doesn't include overseas travel though. before Xmas I'd have thought my Oct trip to Ibiza was 95% certain, now I put that at 40%. But I'll be happy if by may we are reasonably normal in the UK - a big plus would eb able to fly to the Channel Islands and make them my own little Ibiza.
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Im not as pessimistic as you. As long as the head is on the neck the future is bright. Think september is possible with some , not so big , restrictions
 
2H76 said:
Something to brighten the day a little; https://www.theguardian.com/politic...08287e584685d1#block-601bc49c8f08287e584685d1




I bet that doesn't include overseas travel though. before Xmas I'd have thought my Oct trip to Ibiza was 95% certain, now I put that at 40%. But I'll be happy if by may we are reasonably normal in the UK - a big plus would eb able to fly to the Channel Islands and make them my own little Ibiza.
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For me getting back to how things where late Summer would be a big step forward, so being able to go to a Pub or Restaurant but having the controls of booking a table, staying seated, table service, sanitiser and track and trace at the door etc. Would also be good to see Sports events return with limited crowds. I know others are missing the Theatre and Cinema also.

But I feel it could be Spring 2022 before we can finally leave the Sanitiser at home and do what we want. They'll want to see a full Winter of results I reckon.
 
Digital2013 said:
For me getting back to how things where late Summer would be a big step forward, so being able to go to a Pub or Restaurant but having the controls of booking a table, staying seated, table service, sanitiser and track and trace at the door etc. Would also be good to see Sports events return with limited crowds. I know others are missing the Theatre and Cinema also.

But I feel it could be Spring 2022 before we can finally leave the Sanitiser at home and do what we want. They'll want to see a full Winter of results I reckon.
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sunak has already expressed discontent in the moving of the goal posts in respect of a return to how things were pre-Covid. Once all vulnerable groups are vaccinated and hospitalisations drop like a rock, there will be a big push for all industries to fully reopen, including festivals and nightclubs. The number of backbench MPs against these strict measures are growing by the week and I don't think a Tory government will continue to keep businesses closed when there is absolutely no pressure on the NHS.

Scientists may want more data on the long term results, but I don't think it can be justified from a economic standpoint.

If there are any social distancing or non-pharmaceutical interventions in place come late August / September I will be very disappointed and quite surprised (absent any developments like new variants etc).

I do agree with what others have said about international travel and how that is a much more complex situation, but again economic pressure will grow. Some countries' GDP is 15-20% tourism.
 
ElrowLovers said:
The article I translated and posted here a page or two back mentions exactly that. ICU doctors who doubt if the few months of recovering from ICU are worth the effort and if that capacity could be used for other healthcare.

Unfortunately most forum members are busier belittling and ridiculing whatever contrary views or articles get posted here instead of reading it.
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No one in UK ICUs who expected to live one or two months after, average age
61

You worked on your plan for cancer care yet?
 
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