☣ Coronavirus ☣
- Thread starter ibiza77
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BareBen91
Active Member
Hellooo can I just butt in with some positivity - this BBC article today.
Covid: Five reasons to be (cautiously) hopeful - BBC News
Obviously UK specific but shows the big impact the vaccines are having/will have
@JayDR8 your predictions look decent
Covid: Five reasons to be (cautiously) hopeful - BBC News
Obviously UK specific but shows the big impact the vaccines are having/will have
@JayDR8 your predictions look decent
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Really well. Check the current situation.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Yes I do.
Cause it's been scientifically proven lockdowns do not provide any extra effect on top of basic measures such as social distancing and working from home.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
If it's about mental wellbeing then I have even less sympathy. Go spend a week being bombed by Assad and you'll understand what trauma is. Some of those in their 90s and 100s have lived through two World Wars FFS, Nazi concentration camps etc. so worrying that baba hasn't seen his friends enough or is having to stay at home playing gameboy instead of socialising. or that mumsie is having to try to home school for a few more weeks with an end in sight inside a year just doesn't stand up to reasonable tests.
Buckley
Well-Known Member
If you read what I wrote, my point is I'll go with huge majority of experts. I acknowledge that there are some experts who disagree. But I'm not an expert, so it would be ludricous for me to seek out the minority of experts who might offer the opinion that suits my personal circumstances
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
If you read the articles I posted that gives you a solid understanding on what experts say on the cancer plan.
They want to have a fair choice again between let's say giving a covid patient a few extra months vs discovering and treating cancer to give someone extra years. Right now they don't have that choice cause the government decides that Covid goes before anything, even before way more life threatening deceases.
I usually find discussing with you enjoyable, but a discussion is not trying to get me to have a detailled plan so you can try to undermine every aspect of the plan. I think both the article of the 4 ICU doctors and the head of the ICU Amsterdam VUMC cover my arguments pretty well.
2H76
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of press talk in the tabloids today about lockdown ending...not before the kids go back of course; but the pressure is on to open up in April and no later than the start of May, with outdoor stuff opening up firts (sports etc). It does look like there won't be the nonsense of having to eat with alcohol; so hopefully bars will open as bars, and will be open to 11pm at least (was 10pm - and many chucked you out earlier) and maybe opening in April.
I've seen a report suggesting that all adults could be vaxxed (with at least the first) by the start of May but i reckon that's very optimistic. Think once they've done the over 50's then they should prioritise adults with children at school, then finish off by vaxxing everyone else.
I've seen a report suggesting that all adults could be vaxxed (with at least the first) by the start of May but i reckon that's very optimistic. Think once they've done the over 50's then they should prioritise adults with children at school, then finish off by vaxxing everyone else.
The Sun God
Active Member
hmm, I think we can't just dismiss depression as some trivial first world problem. I know a lot of people who have really struggled and one took his life last year. you can't just say, 'ahh well could be worse, at least you're not a refugee' because each individual case is unique and no less invalid.
where I think El Row comes at this wrong is in assuming that despair at the general situation equates to anger at specific policy. everyone's fed up. it's just a case of holding tight...
kimajy
Well-Known Member
I'm being faecetious of course as I've personally had depression worse than I've experienced for 20 years this Winter (and am very prone to it). The point is people need to start dealing with this stuff themselves, like I have had to learn to. There is zoom, there are online support groups, it's all out there if you can't find a way through it yourself. A 90-year old infected by Covid by a care home visitor or worker stands very little chance of surviving a month and with UK variant at least it's almost impossible to keep the virus out when prevalence increases outside of a lockdown situation.
You are right, we are all fed up but this is an era of instant gratification and the notion of stamina and endurance of what you dislike comes less easily to many people nowadays than it has done in the past. Holding tight is exactly what they need to do and it would be a lot easier for everyone to get through it (themselves and others being adversely affected by their public behaviour) if they just started to pull together instead of disrupting from the sides once in a while.
If you can undermine every aspect, newsflash, it ain't very good
"I've got an unflappable plan that the majority of experts in EVERY country in the entire world have overlooked, but please don't ask me about it because I don't want holes picked in it. But trust me, it's fail proof."
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Hally
Well-Known Member
The government hasn't decided that, in the UK at least can't speak for elsewhere but doubt it very much. The government doesnt micromanage how hospitals run
As I said before, but you ignored, no one goes to ICU for Covid to live a few extra months. That's just nonsense
If you have read and understood said articles then you would be able to condense them and create a clear argument. You havent
It is plainly obvious you have zero understanding of how health systems work
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Hally
Well-Known Member
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
So now lockdowns dont work?
Scientifically proven
Should governments continue lockdown to slow the spread of covid-19?
Until we have a meaningful alternative, lockdown is the only thing we can do to prevent further catastrophic spread of the virus, says Edward R Melnick . But John PA Ioannidis argues that any benefits of lockdown depend on its effectiveness and the covid-19 burden—and that the harms are...
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Hospitalizations
On this page, we provide daily-updated data on hospitalizations and intensive care (ICU) admissions due to COVID-19. Our hospital & ICU data is collected from official sources and collated by Our World in Data. The complete list of country-by-country sources is available on GitHub.
ourworldindata.org
Funny how uk admissions go down during a lockdown. Must be aliens.
Why we entertain this clueless clown who with direct evidence for all to see lockdowns have an effect on rates and hospitalizations, I have no idea.
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MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter who you can find to back up spurious claims about lockdowns not working.
Direct evidence of countries hospital admissions and infection rates go down when lockdown introduced (with few weeks lag). Q.E.D lockdowns work at controlling spread.
Respiratory disease spread by people contact will always be reduced by lockdowns and reduced person to person contact.
Are they a blunt and crap tool, sure.
Your theories are demonstrably nonsense.
Leave this here
Ps if anyone disagrees, please explain the data. Why go down when lockdown introduced and up when not - awaits eagerly
Direct evidence of countries hospital admissions and infection rates go down when lockdown introduced (with few weeks lag). Q.E.D lockdowns work at controlling spread.
Respiratory disease spread by people contact will always be reduced by lockdowns and reduced person to person contact.
Are they a blunt and crap tool, sure.
Your theories are demonstrably nonsense.
Leave this here
Ps if anyone disagrees, please explain the data. Why go down when lockdown introduced and up when not - awaits eagerly
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
- Yet that's exactly what's worrying that IC boss in Amsterdam? And the other ICU doctors too. It's even used as an example.As I said before, but you ignored, no one goes to ICU for Covid to live a few extra months. That's just nonsense
So now lockdowns dont work?
Scientifically proven
- And yes the studies so far (Stanford for example and a lot of source material I posted here too) indicate that a lockdown does not give any extra effect on top of the basic measures such as working from home, social distancing etc.
Lockdowns work, but some of the rules in severe lockdowns are unnecessary.
Completely closing gyms, restaurants, stores, hair salons, etc. does absolutely nothing. All of them can remain open with restrictions.
Not letting people go outside......what? That’s North Korea stuff.
Completely closing gyms, restaurants, stores, hair salons, etc. does absolutely nothing. All of them can remain open with restrictions.
Not letting people go outside......what? That’s North Korea stuff.
But what do you think lockdowns are??? They are those measure, only enshrined into policy (because otherwise people just ignore the advice!)
Unless all you are protesting for is a rebrand, I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make (again)
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
While I agree in theory some things could be open, a complex message/rules people don't do all that well. (Either by confusion or on purpose).
Also means more people at work, using public transport, households mixing in confined spaces with poor ventilation (its winter
)Once the hospitalization rate and infection rate is way down (remember when it was around 2k a day & lots was open?) They will open those things you mention up again. Suspect probs 2nd week March.
Schools are the big problem though. High community spread equals bad for schools to open. And it's hard to open other things up if lot of workforce is stuck at home looking after kids
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
A lockdown to me is keeping people at home with curfews, max distance travel from their home, max visitors in your own home, closing shops, closing bars, closing restaurants.
The basic measures I'm talking about are working from home, social distancing, washing hands.
The added effect of the first mentioned lockdown-measures, strict and inhumane measures, on top of the basic measures is researched in 10 different countries and proven to be nihil.
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