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ElrowLovers said:
Great. So we agree on that.

People are just being to sensitive Stivi. I was ASKED the question....I could have played the hypocrite and said:
"No every life is worth the same to me".....simply untrue for all of us. Yes if you had to choose between ME or your GRANDMA ...off course you would save your grandma, but that was not the point at all.
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I might be wrong but the undertone I get from your posts is it doesnt matter as much as it should if older people die, at least not as much as if younger people. Certainly that older people dying when its preventable to maintain the economy/ mental health of younger people/ etc is acceptable

My take is you cant choose anyway, open things up more infections, acute hospitals fail, we are all in trouble. Unless you just open things up and they die at home

To me personally I dont value people on age or intellectual capacity. If we can save human beings then we should.

If you replaced older people with black people or gay people anyone would be horrified. I'm not being emotional and in certainly not virtue signalling. I've spent my life trying to get people to recognise people with dementia as equals to them, as valuable as them.
 
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stivi said:
the bigger picture still includes what I said earlier - every lost life is drama for a family, no matter if we know them or not.
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And THAT is exactly what the problem is.
Even medical advisors, policy makers, politicians are letting their decisions hang on those lost life's and drama's, while completely ignoring the other drama's....

Luckily there's a growing group of smart people, the mentioned German judge by example but I know other in The Netherlands too, who are daring to step away from the emotions and the drama and seeing the bigger drama unfold.

I really expected a different type of discussion here. Every person I met in Ibiza is open minded and values the quality of life, not the quantity. But with the responses I've been getting..it must be the case that everyone here has lost someone close to covid...because they get pretty emotional if I try to step away from the usual narrative and look at other aspects.
 
ElrowLovers said:
And THAT is exactly what the problem is.
Even medical advisors, policy makers, politicians are letting their decisions hang on those lost life's and drama's, while completely ignoring the other drama's....

Luckily there's a growing group of smart people, the mentioned German judge by example but I know other in The Netherlands too, who are daring to step away from the emotions and the drama and seeing the bigger drama unfold.

I really expected a different type of discussion here. Every person I met in Ibiza is open minded and values the quality of life, not the quantity. But with the responses I've been getting..it must be the case that everyone here has lost someone close to covid...because they get pretty emotional if I try to step away from the usual narrative and look at other aspects.
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ElrowLovers said:
And THAT is exactly what the problem is.
Even medical advisors, policy makers, politicians are letting their decisions hang on those lost life's and drama's, while completely ignoring the other drama's....

Luckily there's a growing group of smart people, the mentioned German judge by example but I know other in The Netherlands too, who are daring to step away from the emotions and the drama and seeing the bigger drama unfold.

I really expected a different type of discussion here. Every person I met in Ibiza is open minded and values the quality of life, not the quantity. But with the responses I've been getting..it must be the case that everyone here has lost someone close to covid...because they get pretty emotional if I try to step away from the usual narrative and look at other aspects.
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that's just it you don't know if people have actually lost loved ones from covid directly or indirectly yet you have such insensitive comments about the whole thing

Your comment ibiza people are open minded and values quality and not quantity of life is absolute bullshit!
 
ElrowLovers said:
And THAT is exactly what the problem is.
Even medical advisors, policy makers, politicians are letting their decisions hang on those lost life's and drama's, while completely ignoring the other drama's....

Or possibly decisions based on ethics?

Luckily there's a growing group of smart people, the mentioned German judge by example but I know other in The Netherlands too, who are daring to step away from the emotions and the drama and seeing the bigger drama unfold.

Lucky you can spot who the smart ones are so easily

I really expected a different type of discussion here. Every person I met in Ibiza is open minded and values the quality of life, not the quantity. But with the responses I've been getting..it must be the case that everyone here has lost someone close to covid...because they get pretty emotional if I try to step away from the usual narrative and look at other aspects.

Perhaps we are the open minded ones.....?
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BREAKING NEWS
24th January 2021

UK government has just announced the following:

"From Monday 25th January, we are going to stop sending the over 70s to vaccination centres, and instead send them to a quarry to live out the remaining natural lives. The under 40s will now get their first dose instead."

?
 
Hally said:
I might be wrong but the undertone I get from your posts is it doesnt matter as much as it should if older people die, at least not as much as if younger people. Certainly that older people dying when its preventable to maintain the economy/ mental health of younger people/ etc is acceptable

My take is you cant choose anyway, open things up more infections, acute hospitals fail, we are all in trouble. Unless you just open things up and they die at home

To me personally I dont value people on age or intellectual capacity. If we can save human beings then we should.

If you replaced older people with black people or gay people anyone would be horrified.
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You're a medical professional. I can imagine you want to save anyone's life...and that's honorable.
But if shit hits the fan...and you'll be forced to choose young lives over old lives because of ICU capacity, young lives go before old. That was my take on your question. It's policy in The Netherlands and I think all over the world.
Don't drag race or sexuality in the discussion, totally nonsense.

As far as your interpretation on my opinion....no I dont think it's acceptable to let older people die in favor of the economy or younger people's mental health. However I do think we have crossed the line with measures and it's now too damaging to our public health in general.
 
MrHullMysterious said:
BREAKING NEWS
24th January 2021

UK government has just announced the following:

"From Monday 25th January, we are going to stop sending the over 70s to vaccination centres, and instead send them to a quarry to live out the remaining natural lives. The under 40s will now get their first dose instead."

?
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And that just makes me think of that Monty Python sketch 'a quarry? You were lucky..'
 
cunninghamali said:
that's just it you don't know if people have actually lost loved ones from covid directly or indirectly yet you have such insensitive comments about the whole thing
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Because this topic is not a condoleance register right? This topic is about having a sensible discussion on the virus.
Yet every discussion gets slammed down with emotional responses.
 
Glad he is not prime minister there would be one line for the old people and another line for the young people, old wouldn't even get the vaccine and would be given all to the young so they can live their life because its more important
 
ElrowLovers said:
You're a medical professional. I can imagine you want to save anyone's life...and that's honorable.
But if shit hits the fan...and you'll be forced to choose young lives over old lives because of ICU capacity, young lives go before old. That was my take on your question. It's policy in The Netherlands and I think all over the world.
Don't drag race or sexuality in the discussion, totally nonsense.

As far as your interpretation on my opinion....no I dont think it's acceptable to let older people die in favor of the economy or younger people's mental health. However I do think we have crossed the line with measures and it's now too damaging to our public health in general.
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It isnt nonsense. You would not have the same opinion on policy if 30, 40 etc year olds were dying. You know it, I know it. You clearly judge younger people as more valuable than old and that is a form of prejudice (it's one lots have but I disagree and will say so). Its judging someone for one aspect of their being

All your arguments and solutions involve more older people dying so you can see how I come to my conclusions

We dont choose young over old even in these most stretched of times in the real world thankfully. ICU is usually futile in Colvid for older people so they are rarely admitted
 
ElrowLovers said:
Because this topic is not a condoleance register right? This topic is about having a sensible discussion on the virus.
Yet every discussion gets slammed down with emotional responses.
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Because if you didn't realise it's a sensitive, heartbreaking topic, we are in the middle of a pandemic if u didn't realise!...so many people have lost their lives due to this virus or did u not realise that! What you say can really rub people up the wrong way,
 
ElrowLovers said:
Because this topic is not a condoleance register right? This topic is about having a sensible discussion on the virus.
Yet every discussion gets slammed down with emotional responses.
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Of course its going to be an emotive subject. People are rightfully going to respond based on their own circumstance and feelings.
 
cunninghamali said:
Glad he is not prime minister there would be one line for the old people and another line for the young people, old wouldn't even get the vaccine and would be given all to the young so they can live their life because its more important
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Now we could have an interesting discussion about the vaccine...who get it first, based on age, profession and how to shield the elderly properly.
A lot of countries debated their strategy and here it has changed quite a few times.

However most of you are just waiting for someone with a different opinion to ridicule, so too bad it's not worth it.
 
ElrowLovers said:
Now we could have an interesting discussion about the vaccine...who get it first, based on age, profession and how to shield the elderly properly.
A lot of countries debated their strategy and here it has changed quite a few times.

However most of you are just waiting for someone with a different opinion to ridicule, so too bad it's not worth it.
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No one is
 
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