lee111s
Well-Known Member
Agree on all parts
☣ Coronavirus ☣
- Thread starter ibiza77
- Start date
- Status
freakstar
Well-Known Member
Well in the UAE the government have been excellent from day 1. I’m surprised and thankful for what they have done here. Yes, we have an increase of cases but they are testing 90,000 a day for a relatively small country. We are just going about life normally, although like Ibiza, we need tourism back
lee111s
Well-Known Member
It’s also possible there’s immunity out there through exposure to MERS.
AntonioGeordio
Well-Known Member
Yes could be. Also after experiencing MERS the population might be more likely to accept the countermeasures put in place. Like wearing of masks for example. It was pretty alien to us in the UK I think, wearing masks.
FallenangelGparsons
No longer active
Covid 19 virus side effect:
got time and money (feeling richer ? ) ,now that i cancelled my ibz trip from sept 23th
i ve just call a drum retailer to order a Remo rim (the plastic circle around my head drum, 140€ ? ) and the vendor told me that USA warehouses are shut because of covid 19 ?
I've answered with a joke, No worries i got same drum,in bigger size and i could wait 10 years until end of covid 19 as i got 15+ drums ?, and i'll call him back ....?
got time and money (feeling richer ? ) ,now that i cancelled my ibz trip from sept 23th
i ve just call a drum retailer to order a Remo rim (the plastic circle around my head drum, 140€ ? ) and the vendor told me that USA warehouses are shut because of covid 19 ?
I've answered with a joke, No worries i got same drum,in bigger size and i could wait 10 years until end of covid 19 as i got 15+ drums ?, and i'll call him back ....?
Last edited:
stivi
Well-Known Member
ok so mini lockdowns (ibiza town and san an) to start tonight here. plus, in these areas they are also doing even more testing now and that will certainly result in more cases still.
but, as a whole, on the balearics the situation is slowly stabilizing now. we still get new cases, we do have 300 hospitalized cases currently plus 63 in ICU (balearics total that is, not just ibiza eh), but the number of new cases is decreasing while the recovered cases grow quicker. I still think that in october we might look quite a bit better.
madrid on the other hand is not looking good at all and they are just announcing mini lockdowns in the worst hit areas. some of madrid's ICUs are at capacity again (in certain hospitals, not everywhere luckily - edited!)
but, as a whole, on the balearics the situation is slowly stabilizing now. we still get new cases, we do have 300 hospitalized cases currently plus 63 in ICU (balearics total that is, not just ibiza eh), but the number of new cases is decreasing while the recovered cases grow quicker. I still think that in october we might look quite a bit better.
madrid on the other hand is not looking good at all and they are just announcing mini lockdowns in the worst hit areas. some of madrid's ICUs are at capacity again (in certain hospitals, not everywhere luckily - edited!)
Last edited:
There are less than 3,000 confirmed cases of MERS dating back to its identification in 2012. Its such a small pool of people its not likely to provide any immunity at a population level.
Then you would never be able to stop asymptomatic carriers and pre-symptomatic carriers from spreading the virus. This is exactly what screwed us so royally back in March and April... in places where testing supplies were limited only the symptomatic and in need of care were tested, and the pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic kept spreading the virus.
You've rambled on about this repeatedly... You are correct, PCR only identifies the presence of the viral RNA and does not tell us about the status of an underlying infection but you miss the point of why we test to begin with. The purpose is to identify people and isolate them to break the chain of infection. When you are trying to do this over counting is better than under counting -- better to incorrectly quarantine somebody than incorrectly tell them they are clear to go spread the infection unknowingly. In totality your argument against testing asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic persons, as well as not relying on a widespread and reliable method for testing would make testing regimens effectively useless.
You cannot find me a country that has done well throughout this pandemic without a robust testing regimen and I'd be willing to bet that each of those places is using PCR for a majority of the testing. How your local politicians (mis)use the data is an entirely different problem.
lee111s
Well-Known Member
That’s only people unwell enough to need medical help though. Is it known like the current virus whether one could be asymptomatic?
Last edited:
djedwardsmith
Active Member
The answer is yes. As explained above, the amount of asymptomatic carriers is a real concern, particular in health environments. Targeted testing is what should be happening.
Look at it this way - there's been a minimum of 60k tests a day carried out each day for the past few months I believe (could be wrong, hard to trust their figures), and yet the amount of confirmed cases has only recently gone into 4 figures. So the overwhelming majority of people being tested don't have it.
Now, for those being tested because they work in a hospital, in a care home etc..., that's fine. Use the test, check you're safe.
But so, so many people are getting themselves tested because they've got a cold, or because they've just come back from holiday, or because a guy they once knew at school sneezed at a party five years ago. The testing capacity is not at, nor should it be, the level whereby people can get tests just because they want the peace of mind. It should be used for those with symptoms, those working in health environments. Everyone else should maintain social distancing and look after themselves.
Since being discovered in 2012, confirmed cases of MERS have approximately 35% fatality rate so it is often detected very quickly when an outbreak occurs. The effectiveness of surveillance improves as we know more about the disease -- and in the case of MERS they have been able to identify mild or asymptomatic cases. A quick review of some studies shows ranges from 9% to 28% asymptomatic.
Using a baseline of 3,000 cases confirmed that is a range of 296 to 1,166 asymptomatic cases.
soha
Well-Known Member
Ideally yes
But people can't afford to isolate for 14days, then in theory they could be isolating again the next month.
People are getting tested so if negative they can get back to work.
So I can understand why people who are asymptomatic/minimal symptoms are going to get tested.
Twentynine
Member
Very well attended protest against new measures in Ibiza town this evening. I guess Periodico will soon post an article with the headline “Crazy, idiotic, conspiracy theorists fail to wear masks and keep distance in illegal demonstration”
djedwardsmith
Active Member
But they would only need to stay home if they had symptoms.
If you're asymptomatic, you shouldn't be going for a test because you've got no reason to suspect you have it - and therefore social distancing is going to be the way to stop it from spreading in those cases.
4tothefloor
Active Member
Periodico wouldn’t be wrong if they did. Hopefully they do. About time we stopped worrying about mask shaming and started calling out the minority of people they refuse to follow the guidance of the medical profession and health experts. It’s the ignorant that have played a significant role in us all facing the new interventions we are facing now. I’ve got no time for careerist politicians (which is most of them imo) but now is the time to start taking a much harder line. Time for populations to show much more personal and social responsibility or face the consequences.
Last edited:
Twentynine
Member
First of all, I was there as I happened to be passing by - most people were wearing masks. Secondly, you don’t think people have a democratic right to protest against that their livelihoods, freedom of movement and personal liberties are being taken away? Or should we suspend all “inconvenient” human rights in a time of crisis?
4tothefloor
Active Member
I wasn’t there. The way I read your post was that most were not wearing masks. If not I accept that. We all know what the media are like.
Regardless, plenty aren’t. And plenty are not adhering to the guidance. And that is causing a problem. We see it in shops, schools, offices, pubs, Hotels, planes, public transport. We see it everywhere.
Regarding civil liberties, I’m afraid it is time to relax these at a time of crisis. Large communities are failing to comply with basic guidance. That is putting us all at risk. This is a pandemic. In the UK, if we went down a herd immunity approach most estimates suggest 500,000 will die. Put that on a world multiplier. What would you prefer, a few months of civil liberty infringement or do as you wish to see tens on millions die? There is a middle ground and that hasn’t been working which has led us to this point. I want the middle ground to work until (if) we get a a vaccine, but it’s not working. I’d like to get through lockdown mk2 then see some sensible enforcement of what was guidance and that should extend how long it takes for the need for lockdown mk3 to happen.
And politically I am a centrist so advocating what I am doesn’t come easy.
Last edited:
stivi
Well-Known Member
agree to your approach @4tothefloor I also thought society would be more reasonable, but sadly the reality is different.
4tothefloor
Active Member
I agree. I do think it’s a minority. It’s kind of reflected on this forum. But it’s a dangerous minority. Quite clearly enforcement of what was guidance is now required. If that doesn’t happen we will see us in and out of lockdown. Take enforcement to its enth degree and we can get rid of it. But I can’t see the world collaborating on that level. So we have to be realistic and reasonable. Another lockdown will be necessary. After that we will have to more rigorously enforce what was guidance if we don’t it’s a choice - loss of significant civil liberties or loss of millions of people. The loss of civil liberties doesn’t sit well with my political thinking. But I think it’s what is needed. I don’t want to see millions of people die unnecessarily.
- Status