☣ Coronavirus ☣

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ElrowLovers said:
Also interesting and relevant for this discussion..
Dutch ICU boss says length of stay in ICU reduced from 22 days in march/April to less than 8 days in july/august
Also the amount of people dying as the end result in ICU has gone down drastically.

Source: https://nos.nl/artikel/2348331-gommers-coronapatienten-nu-veel-korter-op-ic.html
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that is the same here. I think no one is discussing the fact that less people die of covid now. less people end up in ICU and their stay is shorter. a lot of younger people get it now and the health care sector has made progress and knows better to treat it.

the one thing that hasn't changed and which is still a problem is, that once it spreads and we've got lots of cases, the health care systems get a lot of pressure again. again, it's not the same situation as in march/april, but people here are worried.
 
McRackin said:
Yep. I've heard it live on the radio and she said "at the end of the week" so I was surprised to read it different on Noudiari.
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ok, ibiza / san antonio update:

from this friday 22h onwards, 15 days mini-lockdown for certain zones of ibiza town and san antonio. the exact zones will be announced tomorrow.

it won't be a total lockdown though, not as strict as was the case in spring.
 
Does anyone know if "leaving the country" is a valid excuse to leave those confined neighbourhoods in Palma? We are in Figueretas and were planning on leaving on Sunday.....
 
Twentynine said:
Does anyone know if "leaving the country" is a valid excuse to leave those confined neighbourhoods in Palma? We are in Figueretas and were planning on leaving on Sunday.....
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good question. maybe see if you could change that flight to friday if you can, just to be sure. that said, tomorrow we'll know whether figueretas is considered a lockdown zone so I'd wait for that
 
stivi said:
that is the same here. I think no one is discussing the fact that less people die of covid now. less people end up in ICU and their stay is shorter. a lot of younger people get it now and the health care sector has made progress and knows better to treat it.

the one thing that hasn't changed and which is still a problem is, that once it spreads and we've got lots of cases, the health care systems get a lot of pressure again. again, it's not the same situation as in march/april, but people here are worried.
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I get it. But what baffles me is that the governments are not adjusting their measures to this different situation.
Everything is pointing to a different age/generation specific approach now instead of a 'lock everyone (or everyone in a region) up again' approach...

edit: And there is a herd immunity chance after all, at least in the younger group, so many positive PCR tests (doesn't really say anything about how contagious those people are but ok) and so little hospitalization means they should at least consider this as a herd immunity chance.
 
ElrowLovers said:
I get it. But what baffles me is that the governments are not adjusting their measures to this different situation.
Everything is pointing to a different age/generation specific approach now instead of a 'lock everyone (or everyone in a region) up again' approach...

edit: And there is a herd immunity chance after all, at least in the younger group, so many positive PCR tests (doesn't really say anything about how contagious those people are but ok) and so little hospitalization means they should at least consider this as a herd immunity chance.
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erm...I don't wanna go defending our government, but they actually are adjusting the measures. at least for spain, even if a town is looking really bad with numbers, the lockdowns that are being implemented can't be compared at all to the ones in march/april. in most places, even with a local lockdown, bars and restaurants can stay open still, just with a lower capacity. same for shops (even though some might have to shut). it's definitely not the drastic 'everything shut and everyone needs to stay inside, period' situation we had in springtime.

and that, to me, is adjusting the measures to this new situation.

don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of them neither, but I had to call this one out because, at least for spain, your statement is simply false.
 
here's the restrictions that have been in place over in palma (in the affected areas). the areas in san an and ibiza town will likely be treated similarly

119588632_10157237342571035_5916141740886230968_o.jpg


as you can see, definitely not comparable to our strict lockdown when the only thing open were the supermarkets and you couldn't even go for a walk or a run...
 
stivi said:
here's the restrictions that have been in place over in palma (in the affected areas). the areas in san an and ibiza town will likely be treated similarly

119588632_10157237342571035_5916141740886230968_o.jpg


as you can see, definitely not comparable to our strict lockdown when the only thing open were the supermarkets and you couldn't even go for a walk or a run...
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I think it's a really scary thing when that strict lockdown is becoming our baseline and everything else is sold as doable.
I understand Spain might be a different story now and my statement was false if aiming it at Spain only, but there's a lot of European countries including the Netherlands with a different perspective now and we are still having the initial lockdown as a starting point. It almost feels like a form of gaslighting, where we are being told we should be very happy with the fact we can sit on a terrace with a small group or very happy to be able to walk around with a mask on. Our starting point should always be the normal world, where there were no restrictions.
 
I doubt certain things will be going back to normal. the sanitisers are now bolted into the wall at supermarkets, the notices are permanent fixtures, the screens at tills remind me of the ones at old british post offices. Waiting at an eerily quiet Girona apt at their car hire desk the other week, seeing all the signs on screens in official fonts. things now feel institutionalised and longterm. it actually now feels weird if you see someone standing on the street without a mask. It is actually incredible how much Spain has changed in 6 months. Mentally, people for the most part have just accepted it even though people are depressed. How could you not be? I've felt really low for ages. And in extreme cases it's followed by anger. A few people I know via facebook have started getting restless, coming at it from a libertarian angle "They're taking our rights away. my body, my face etc". still small but could get lively on the streets if people start rebelling in a big way. we're starting to see this anti-mask thing explode in the US, often the same people in the gun militias. a kind of mob rule and it could get seriously ugly after the election...
 
Tourist said:
I doubt certain things will be going back to normal. the sanitisers are now bolted into the wall at supermarkets, the notices are permanent fixtures, the screens at tills remind me of the ones at old british post offices. Waiting at an eerily quiet Girona apt at their car hire desk the other week, seeing all the signs on screens in official fonts. things now feel institutionalised and longterm. it actually now feels weird if you see someone standing on the street without a mask. It is actually incredible how much Spain has changed in 6 months. Mentally, people for the most part have just accepted it even though people are depressed. How could you not be? I've felt really low for ages. And in extreme cases it's followed by anger. A few people I know via facebook have started getting restless, coming at it from a libertarian angle "They're taking our rights away. my body, my face etc". still small but could get lively on the streets if people start rebelling in a big way. we're starting to see this anti-mask thing explode in the US, often the same people in the gun militias. a kind of mob rule and it could get seriously ugly after the election...
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It's depressing to say the least. And I don't think it's strange that the anti-crowd is getting larger and larger...

It's just a mask...
It's just temporary...
It's just to flatten the curve...
It's just a few dying businesses...
It's just some patience waiting for the vaccine..
It's just a 14 day quarantine...
 
ElrowLovers said:
It's depressing to say the least. And I don't think it's strange that the anti-crowd is getting larger and larger...

It's just a mask...
It's just temporary...
It's just to flatten the curve...
It's just a few dying businesses...
It's just some patience waiting for the vaccine..
It's just a 14 day quarantine...
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Might as well vote for Trump then. He'll give you all your rights back, because he cares.
 
I am not that pessimistic. One thing that changed due to Corona is how quickly governments react to new developments. Both introducing and rescinding measures takes just a few days, and governments are not afraid to review the results of past measures and to adjust accordingly.

Sure, signs and protection screens will stay longer, but the really unpleasant restrictions (having to avoid each other) will be gone the moment they are no longer necessary.

Since the early covid days, the message has always been, no return to normality until a vaccine becomes available sometime in early 2021. If anyone was hoping the masks would be gone in a couple of weeks, they have just been deluding themselves, sorry.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Might as well vote for Trump then. He'll give you all your rights back, because he cares.
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If I were a US citizen I would probably not vote on Biden.
I'm not saying I'm a Trump-fan and he could probably have handled the Covid-approach at the start better, but at least he sees the importance of the balance between the Covid measures and the economy, mental health and other healthcare of his citizens.
 
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