☣ Coronavirus ☣

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I've said it before and I'll say it again...governments have totally lost their minds.
Trapped in tunnelvision, confirmation bias and billion-dollar EU vaccin pacts....no country dares to make a U-turn now. They are caught in a form of mutual strangle.

Lockdowns, masks etc have NOT proven to have had any effect on the decreases, all countries show the same graphs.
Herd immunity by both antidotes and cell-immunity seems very near if not already reached, but hey...who cares...we have chosen the vaccin and paid for the vaccin so no changing our minds now.
 
ElrowLovers said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...governments have totally lost their minds.
Trapped in tunnelvision, confirmation bias and billion-dollar EU vaccin pacts....no country dares to make a U-turn now. They are caught in a form of mutual strangle.

Lockdowns, masks etc have NOT proven to have had any effect on the decreases, all countries show the same graphs.
Herd immunity by both antidotes and cell-immunity seems very near if not already reached, but hey...who cares...we have chosen the vaccin and paid for the vaccin so no changing our minds now.
Click to expand...
I think most people are happy to accept this year as a 'lost' year and do what we are told in order to get back to 'normal' for 2021. But if the same restrictions are happening next year, no festivals, holidays ruined, with these figures I'm not so sure people will be as understanding.

I read somewhere that the UK there is a 44 per 1,000,000 chance of catching Covid 19 (1 in 23k ish), chance of dying in the uk in road accident is 1 in 20k.
 
ElrowLovers said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...governments have totally lost their minds.
Trapped in tunnelvision, confirmation bias and billion-dollar EU vaccin pacts....no country dares to make a U-turn now. They are caught in a form of mutual strangle.

Lockdowns, masks etc have NOT proven to have had any effect on the decreases, all countries show the same graphs.
Herd immunity by both antidotes and cell-immunity seems very near if not already reached, but hey...who cares...we have chosen the vaccin and paid for the vaccin so no changing our minds now.
Click to expand...

sources for the claim herd immunity has been reached or nearly reached anywhere please. genuinely interested to see that.
 
stivi said:
sources for the claim herd immunity has been reached or nearly reached anywhere please. genuinely interested to see that.
Click to expand...
It was a bit of a rant, but the main source was an article about Sweden. Will look back where I read it and get back to you.

Something else that was widely framed and attacked here to be untrue and 'propaganda':
www.nytimes.com

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
ElrowLovers said:
Lockdowns, masks etc have NOT proven to have had any effect on the decreases, all countries show the same graphs.
Herd immunity by both antidotes and cell-immunity seems very near if not already reached, but hey...who cares...we have chosen the vaccin and paid for the vaccin so no changing our minds now.
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure about that. See attached.
From https://www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/
Sure other sites too but am working at min.

Masks have had an effect on numbers?‍♂️

As for herd immunity (population with antibodies 60% min but ideally 85%+) I would love to see evidence of that as would mean life back to normal soon!?

Uk survey data:
www.gov.uk

Sero-surveillance of COVID-19

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

"...The highest adjusted prevalence in all regions is found among adolescents and young adults in the 17 to 29 year old age group (varying from 6.3% in the South East to 20.5% in the North West regions). However, in the most recent data from London, the increase is more marked in older age groups suggesting that this population have been affected later. These patterns may reflect differences in behaviour and mixing patterns in the different age groups..."
 

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ElrowLovers said:
It was a bit of a rant, but the main source was an article about Sweden. Will look back where I read it and get back to you.

Something else that was widely framed and attacked here to be untrue and 'propaganda':
www.nytimes.com

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. (Published 2020)

The usual diagnostic tests may simply be too sensitive and too slow to contain the spread of the virus.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
What? The tests are accurate but don't say how infectious a person is? I'm not getting the point?‍♂️
 
Damn it, you where getting my Hope's up. ?
www.webmd.com

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com


Edit: wow, Sweden's guy said yeah ok for 10% of the elderly to die if it works..
www.theguardian.com

Sweden's Covid-19 strategist under fire over herd immunity emails

Anders Tegnell appears to have asked if higher death rate for older people might be acceptable
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

?
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Damn it, you where getting my Hope's up. ?
www.webmd.com

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com
Click to expand...
There are tons of articles to be found about Sweden that either go left or right.
And that the numbers in Sweden are not different from other EU countries that did enforce lockdowns.
Also, Sweden is still pretty much satisfied with their approach, even though that gets quoted wrong in all media because other countries want to prove how well they did instead of Sweden.

But I'm not from Sweden and I dont really care about this discussion. I just listened to a dutch doctor on national television yesterday giving a good explanation about herd immunity and antibodies. That it's not all about those antibodies from a earlier infection or a vaccin but also about your cell memory. So the whole 're-infection' stuff and the antibodies only staying in your body for a short time turned out to be fearporn indeed.

You can keep coming with links to try to prove me wrong but that's the entire point, confirmation bias. A total blindness to see the other side of the story and being able to look into other perspectives or falsifications of your own beliefs.
 
MrHullMysterious said:
What? The tests are accurate but don't say how infectious a person is? I'm not getting the point?‍♂️
Click to expand...
If the test was accurate it would not detect a small particle of the virus not even making someone sick or contagious. That's the whole point of this phase we are in. We have gone from flattening the curve of ICU patients...to positive tests while those tests are not accurate at all.
 
Btw, should
ElrowLovers said:
There are tons of articles to be found about Sweden that either go left or right.
And that the numbers in Sweden are not different from other EU countries that did enforce lockdowns.
Also, Sweden is still pretty much satisfied with their approach, even though that gets quoted wrong in all media because other countries want to prove how well they did instead of Sweden.

But I'm not from Sweden and I dont really care about this discussion. I just listened to a dutch doctor on national television yesterday giving a good explanation about herd immunity and antibodies. That it's not all about those antibodies from a earlier infection or a vaccin but also about your cell memory. So the whole 're-infection' stuff and the antibodies only staying in your body for a short time turned out to be fearporn indeed.

You can keep coming with links to try to prove me wrong but that's the entire point, confirmation bias. A total blindness to see the other side of the story and being able to look into other perspectives or falsifications of your own beliefs.
Click to expand...
? I do read research into other possibilities, but the results they keep getting back are not great at the min.

Other parts of the immune system are important but antibodies are key to stop you getting it and possibly spreading it again. Think of common cold, most fight it off no problem but still infecious. Hence we don't have herd immunity to the common cold.

Also in reading emails the swedish guy in charge saying 10% deaths of elderly worth it? Isn't really been bias is it? Kinda fact.

Ps: You do realise we all want this to be over too, right?
 
ElrowLovers said:
If the test was accurate it would not detect a small particle of the virus not even making someone sick or contagious. That's the whole point of this phase we are in. We have gone from flattening the curve of ICU patients...to positive tests while those tests are not accurate at all.
Click to expand...
? it's not accurate as its detecting the virus? Pass the blunt over?

I see what you are trying to say, people get it but not many in hospital etc. Fair enough (for europe anyhow). But be mindful there are estimated to be around 15k people in uk like my mate - lung damage and gets out of breath going up stairs. He's 30. He had it start of May. He still knackered.

~5% of people end up with this "long covid", that is a worry if we just go bollox to it all for those of us who've not had it.
 
www.independent.co.uk

What is long Covid and why are people having symptoms for months?

More than one million people have had symptoms for longer than three months
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Should say as a person living with an immune condition, once something slaps your immune system about into a frenzy, it is not fun and really impacts your life for a long time.

So maybe I'm been more cautious than others who've not had that experience.

Btw BenH, I can only read top 2 paragraphs of that article. I'm too tight to pay to read it ?
 
MrHullMysterious said:
www.independent.co.uk

What is long Covid and why are people having symptoms for months?

More than one million people have had symptoms for longer than three months
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Should say as a person living with an immune condition, once something slaps your immune system about into a frenzy, it is not fun and really impacts your life for a long time.

So maybe I'm been more cautious than others who've not had that experience.

Btw BenH, I can only read top 2 paragraphs of that article. I'm too tight to pay to read it ?
Click to expand...

Ha ha I would have been too but it was no charge for me for some reason!! ??
 
BenH said:
Ha ha I would have been too but it was no charge for me for some reason!! ??
Click to expand...
Yeah you get so many free views on your IP address a day I think?


Will have to dig and find the bmj article it's based on. Only one have found was going on about test reliability, but afaik the uk one was shown to be 95% accurate ?‍♂️
 
MrHullMysterious said:
? it's not accurate as its detecting the virus? Pass the blunt over?

I see what you are trying to say, people get it but not many in hospital etc. Fair enough (for europe anyhow). But be mindful there are estimated to be around 15k people in uk like my mate - lung damage and gets out of breath going up stairs. He's 30. He had it start of May. He still knackered.

~5% of people end up with this "long covid", that is a worry if we just go bollox to it all for those of us who've not had it.
Click to expand...
The article is saying: Up to 90 percent of the people testing positive carried barely any virus.

But still governments are using those PCR test to keep school closed, travel bans, night curfews etcetera.
 
ElrowLovers said:
www.newsweek.com

Sweden's 'Herd Immunity' Mastermind Gets Promoted by WHO

Emails previously showed Johan Giesecke and state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell discussing herd immunity at the start of the pandemic.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
Click to expand...
I'm lost again, its saying same thing as other articles posted above (which is good in way)

...Whether Sweden's lack of lockdown has or will lead to some form of herd immunity is still unknown...

It does talk about discussions about herd immunity the guy had back months ago, but doesn't say they reached it ?‍♂️


About immune response, t cells and so on (scroll down a little). Interesting read and does talk about trying to test for t cells that work against the virus ?
www.bmj.com

Covid-19: Where are we on immunity and vaccines?

As covid-19 vaccine trials begin to report early results and research papers on immunity shed more light on the situation, Elisabeth Mahase looks at what we know so far There was a flurry of excitement last month when two new papers published in the Lancet outlined the early findings from two...
www.bmj.com www.bmj.com
 
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