☣ Coronavirus ☣

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MrHullMysterious said:
Although it does say this as well:

These analyses did not account for the effect of occupation, comorbidities or obesity. These are important factors because they are associated with the risk of acquiring COVID-19, the risk of dying, or both. Other evidence has shown that when comorbidities are included, the difference in risk of death among hospitalised patients is greatly reduced.

So perhaps specific illnesses affecting certain groups more. Although plenty of fat unhealthy white people too. Might not really know why for years?‍♂️
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Maybe population density for those groups. Do they typically live in dense cities?
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Although it does say this as well:

These analyses did not account for the effect of occupation, comorbidities or obesity. These are important factors because they are associated with the risk of acquiring COVID-19, the risk of dying, or both. Other evidence has shown that when comorbidities are included, the difference in risk of death among hospitalised patients is greatly reduced.

So perhaps specific illnesses affecting certain groups more. Although plenty of fat unhealthy white people too. Might not really know why for years?‍♂️
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Yeah, you’re on to something there. In a past job I did work with PHE (amongst other orgs.) in studying coronary heart disease and diabetes in ethnic minorities, and I recognise the wording in this report as being very similar in tone. Basically, certain groups are predisposed to poorer outcomes and part of that is societal and part genetics. We probably don’t know enough yet about covid to give values, but in some ways that doesn’t matter, as we know BAME groups need where at all possible to reduce risk exposure and not increase!
 
CasaNegron said:
Maybe population density for those groups. Do they typically live in dense cities?
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Yeah, from what gathered report mentions that too as well as likely to be front line workers etc. While these do reduce the disparity, there still seems to be anomalies on the data.

It could just be the data sets have some issues or something not accounted for. I suspect that in the main but perhaps a genetic/immune aspect affect as well.

If you've had exposure to different childhood illnesses it might mean your immune system responds differently, and that could be from unique things within your community (as in locale as well as ethnicity)

Getting answers is going to be hard, just like answers why some have no symptoms at all. Might be genetics and the ACE2 receptor differences ?‍♂️. Might all tie in together, or something completely out of left field.

I understand why a lot of BAME peeps are pissed at UK government with no actions to take, but right now they don't have a clue sadly. (But the UK government are pretty good at not having a clue ?)


Edit: I'm just mindful there are a lot of white overweight people with diabetes and other underlying conditions which are dying too, but BAME people seem to be even worse affected than those groups too ?

But yeah, defo if at higher risk, be more careful and try and avoid people. Harder done than said, esp if front line worker ?
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Although it does say this as well:

These analyses did not account for the effect of occupation, comorbidities or obesity. These are important factors because they are associated with the risk of acquiring COVID-19, the risk of dying, or both. Other evidence has shown that when comorbidities are included, the difference in risk of death among hospitalised patients is greatly reduced.

So perhaps specific illnesses affecting certain groups more. Although plenty of fat unhealthy white people too. Might not really know why for years?‍♂️
Click to expand...

Maybe to do with occupation. More black nurses & carers?
 
Johnny Vodka said:
It doesn't kill black people because of their genetics; it kills them because of inequality. This is all about changing that inequality. Anyway, don't worry about me - I'm at home. ?
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I never said it did mate, and not everyone at the protests are BAME.

Also experts aren’t entirely sure why it’s effecting the BAME community disproportionately yet.

One thing for sure though, is gathering in mass crowds certainly won’t help.
 
SeoulSaint said:
I could’t disagree more (about the covid part). There are so many reasons why all protests right now should be banned. Let’s start with these protests being BAME focused and BAME groups now known to be most at risk, these protests on that basis alone are very dangerous.

Another reason, is you mention those that are vulnerable should basically have to isolate because other people want civil/societal change and are going to increase the virus. I’d like you to tell that to my mate who hasn’t left his flat for 10 weeks because he has cystic fibrosis. What a stupid comment to make. Why should he and 100,000s of others have to be forced to be shielded for longer because people choose to have mass gatherings and spread the virus, and create an even bigger pandemic?

Have a think too about how the virus spreads. People not socially distancing and also infectious will infect others. It might not be possible for those to be shielded from those that are infectious, for example the newly infected shop worker who was out protesting who then has contact with the elderly or care worker in the shop. The care worker then heads back to the care home etc. It’s not as simple as just saying we’ll shield the vulnerable and that’s that. Once the R rate goes up and it’s already very high in the US and UK, it’s vulnerable groups that will be affected.

Should stress, I fully support the message of the protestors, it’s just completely the wrong time to hold public events.
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I can only speak for the US. I'm not familiar with what's happening in the UK and the history of socioeconomic/police oppression there. From your post I'm going to assume we aren't talking about the same thing, therefore my opinion is most likely far more generalized than specific in reference to your comments.

1. Your friend being inconvenienced due to his condition pales in comparison to millions of people fighting for their rights to not be abused, discriminated against, and killed by police.
2. Yes covid still exists. Yes the protesters are aware of the risks. Their belief is that that forcing police reform now is worth the risks.
3. Police abuse and brutality have existed for generations of POC. there is no better time than now to make these changes.
 
AntonioGeordio said:
I never said it did mate, and not everyone at the protests are BAME.

Also experts aren’t entirely sure why it’s effecting the BAME community disproportionately yet.

One thing for sure though, is gathering in mass crowds certainly won’t help.
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Well, I'm not. :) This is an example of white privilege though - not having to weigh up fighting for your rights vs an increased chance of getting covid.
 
McRackin said:
english.elpais.com

Parties are mostly to blame for new outbreaks of coronavirus in Spain

A number of social gatherings have put the health authorities on alert, while in Lleida a celebration has actually caused the healthcare area to remain in Phase 1 of the deescalation plan
english.elpais.com english.elpais.com
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Do you happen to know what the hospitalization rate/severity of symptoms of infected people? I know Italy's was a fraction of it was a couple months ago, curious if this trend is playing out similarly across Europe.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Well, I'm not. :) This is an example of white privilege though - not having to weigh up fighting for your rights vs an increased chance of getting covid.
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It’s not really though.

I’m talking about a pandemic that is still killing hundreds every day in the UK.

It’s one thing to not care about getting covid yourself, but passing it on to others (like family members for example) due to your carelessness is pretty selfish.

So you have to weigh that up really.

Certainly not a risk I would be taking.
 
B_Falls said:
I can only speak for the US. I'm not familiar with what's happening in the UK and the history of socioeconomic/police oppression there. From your post I'm going to assume we aren't talking about the same thing, therefore my opinion is most likely far more generalized than specific in reference to your comments.

1. Your friend being inconvenienced due to his condition pales in comparison to millions of people fighting for their rights to not be abused, discriminated against, and killed by police.
2. Yes covid still exists. Yes the protesters are aware of the risks. Their belief is that that forcing police reform now is worth the risks.
3. Police abuse and brutality have existed for generations of POC. there is no better time than now to make these changes.
Click to expand...

I think the UK and the USA are massively different places. Socially and culturally.

I think it’s really difficult to compare the two countries like for like. We share the same language, but demographics and things like the prison systems and healthcare are massively different.

There’s certainly a massive difference between our police forces.

Our Police are held accountable for their actions and police by consent. There have been many cases over the years where officers have stood trial for their actions. I think the British police have made massive efforts at transparency and holding their officers accountable for their actions.

The Police depts in the US seam to be a lot more hardline. Brutal at times!

Evidence shown in the last week or so has shown this. From the atrocity of murdering a poor bloke live on video, to seeing riot squads tear gassing crowds and battering people around the city centres.

Hard to watch, although we had a similar situation in the UK in 2011. Handled really poorly by the Met Police, they later got hauled over the coals for it. Mainly due to their inaction.

It’ll be very interesting to see how the US moves forward after this. I’d like to see positivity come from it, even though it’s not my country it pains me to see the division in America. Although every American I’ve ever met has been fiercely proud to be an American.

Disclaimer: never thought I’d find myself writing something positive about the British Police. I’m a reformed character though, haven’t been arrested since 2011 ?
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Yeah, from what gathered report mentions that too as well as likely to be front line workers etc. While these do reduce the disparity, there still seems to be anomalies on the data.

It could just be the data sets have some issues or something not accounted for. I suspect that in the main but perhaps a genetic/immune aspect affect as well.

If you've had exposure to different childhood illnesses it might mean your immune system responds differently, and that could be from unique things within your community (as in locale as well as ethnicity)

Getting answers is going to be hard, just like answers why some have no symptoms at all. Might be genetics and the ACE2 receptor differences ?‍♂️. Might all tie in together, or something completely out of left field.

I understand why a lot of BAME peeps are pissed at UK government with no actions to take, but right now they don't have a clue sadly. (But the UK government are pretty good at not having a clue ?)


Edit: I'm just mindful there are a lot of white overweight people with diabetes and other underlying conditions which are dying too, but BAME people seem to be even worse affected than those groups too ?

But yeah, defo if at higher risk, be more careful and try and avoid people. Harder done than said, esp if front line worker ?
Click to expand...

I would expect a far worse situation in Africa and the subcontinent than there has been if genetic predisposition was a major factor. More likely cultural, dietary and where people live (more in cities than rural areas) ?
 
It's just a massive kick in the teeth to everyone who has actually put some serious effort into all ot this, done our part not seen family / friends for however long basically put our lives on hold for all the idiots up and down the country and world in fact to now start breaking the distancing compliance by the thousands ..I can see alot starting to loose all respect they had for the seriousness of what the virus can do
 
chez said:
It's just a massive kick in the teeth to everyone who has actually put some serious effort into all ot this, done our part not seen family / friends for however long basically put our lives on hold for all the idiots up and down the country and world in fact to now start breaking the distancing compliance by the thousands ..I can see alot starting to loose all respect they had for the seriousness of what the virus can do
Click to expand...

Meh I felt like that after VE Day. Packed beaches, the BBC showing a conga down the street at some street party. Everyone gave up after that point
 
Just seen a video of a Black Lives Matter Protest here in Germany.

While I completely agree with the message, I‘m certain 90% of those attending are just bored from lockdown and looking for any excuse to go out and party.

There was music blaring, people dancing, some protest indeed...

I‘m sorry but most of these people would not be attending these things, were it not for the Corona situation.

Perhaps this is even a good thing. Perhaps because of this, the message will reach more people than it usually would (one can hope...)

I just hope we don‘t see a spike in numbers because of this. If we don‘t, then I guess we really don‘t need to be as careful in open air environments.
 
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