Maybe the problem is the old economic model? Maybe this will force us to rethink whether success should be measured in GDP and whether constant economic growth is a sustainable way of living (clue, it almost certainly isn't). Interesting to see countries considering universal basic incomes and other radical ideas.
☣ Coronavirus ☣
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MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
This is true, but I'm not too keen on the swedish model where they basically throw people in care homes under the bus.
(Not even sending them to hospital for oxygen apparently, but put on a show of having spare beds for them?
)
(Not even sending them to hospital for oxygen apparently, but put on a show of having spare beds for them?
)
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Was going to say something like this, but didn't want to get on my environmental high horse again. The way human beings live and consume at the moment just isn't possible (if there's to be a planet for future generations).
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
"The economy" is also what's paying for healthcare in the first place.
If you're going to use quote marks, at least quote what I said, not what you thought said
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, but people tend to use economy or economic growth / model whatever as a dirty word in these times. Like it's choosing between making loads of money and killing people. We need the economy to prevent even more deaths than Covid19 alone, all im sayingIf you're going to use quote marks, at least quote what I said, not what you thought said
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
So you can't have doctors and nurses without excess consumption and people buying lots of stupid ****?
chez
Active Member
The knock on effects of shutting the world down is catastrophic, heres one example
At what stage do you concenrate on this and less on that, the whole thing is just a tsunami of hurt
At what stage do you concenrate on this and less on that, the whole thing is just a tsunami of hurt
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
And why can't we ensure those people are still fed, providing crops can be grown and harvested (social distancing rules observed)?
There was a quote I saw somewhere about the virus not creating cracks in the system, but rather highlighting cracks in the system.
Digital2013
Well-Known Member
Lots of things about the globalised world need reviewing.
I used to work for a Clothing maufacturer, and production had moved from the UK to China many years ago, it then moved again to Laos because China put the prices up, then when Laos started rasing prices we then asked our manufacturer to review other locations such as Cameroon...the guy in charge of the manufacturer quite rightly turned round to our Buyer and said 'where next after that Legoland? Lapland? The Moon?'
Shipping stuff round the globe because it is a few pence cheaper isnt good for the planet and is only good for jobs in that sweetspot where workers in the latest fad country get a payrise but that doesnt always last. Need to move back to producing goods locally or in places where the climate and local expertise suits the production.
chez
Active Member
absolutely mate I agree, but as non of that is in place this is the current harsh reality. I hope this has been a wake up call if nothing else for outdated systems
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Lots of things about the globalised world need reviewing.
I used to work for a Clothing maufacturer, and production had moved from the UK to China many years ago, it then moved again to Laos because China put the prices up, then when Laos started rasing prices we then asked our manufacturer to review other locations such as Cameroon...the guy in charge of the manufacturer quite rightly turned round to our Buyer and said 'where next after that Legoland? Lapland? The Moon?'
Shipping stuff round the globe because it is a few pence cheaper isnt good for the planet and is only good for jobs in that sweetspot where workers in the latest fad country get a payrise but that doesnt always last. Need to move back to producing goods locally or in places where the climate and local expertise suits the production.
Well, yeah, the reason why we have such a "high standard of living" in the west is because we don't really pay the true cost of goods, or the people that make them for us are paid peanuts and are essentially exploited (working longer hours than you and I for a lot less money and shittier conditions). There's a reason why many don't want to see system change, either within countries or worldwide.
CasaNegron
Well-Known Member
Future outcomes:
Current system = more death and uncertainty, unevenly distributed by people (surplus horded by elite and rich nations at expense of poor)
Sustainable System = more death and uncertainty, uneven/ random distribution by circumstance (no reliable surpluses)
?
Current system = more death and uncertainty, unevenly distributed by people (surplus horded by elite and rich nations at expense of poor)
Sustainable System = more death and uncertainty, uneven/ random distribution by circumstance (no reliable surpluses)
?
The Sun God
Well-Known Member
We're all guilty. And that includes the forum lefties. We all want cheap sunshine holidays or illicit narcs or instant flights or lucky lucky sunglasses and the social/eco impact is felt by others. Hypocrites the lot of us.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
We both see 'the economy' as something different I guess.
For me...the economy is not excess consumption and people buying stupid things, that happens anyway, during lockdown online buying has increased big time.
But the economy is jobs, businesses, innovation, technology, but in general people making a living and paying taxes.
Those taxes are making sure healthcare is there in the first place.
So if the economy dies and the government is out of freshly printed money to create emergency funds and loans for everyone...no there will be no doctors and nurses.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
True. But, speaking personally, I do think more and more about my lifestyle and changing various consumption habits. Few of us are perfect, but there's a big difference between really not giving a shit, and being open to learning and trying to change/make sacrifices.
Hally
Well-Known Member
Our first wave is comparable to the Spanish Flu's second wave when soldiers returned home from the war and the original hotspots (which would make Wuhan our first wave). Hopefully the inevitable surges that come will be smaller than we have already experienced ?
tclubber
Active Member
From my egoistic point of view, I am all for moving manufacturing back to developed countries, so that billions of dollars we currently pay as wages for slave labor would instead go to well paid programmers, engineers and robot operators in our own countries. Cheap slave labor may look attractive in the short term, but not good at all for the development of technologies.
The winners of the globalization are poor countries, not rich countries. So don't expect the world hunger to disappear after a de-globalization. The main losers of reducing our reliance on global supply chains will not be big evil corporations, but ordinary people in poor parts of the world, who will lose their jobs. And then the same people who constantly complain about us "exploiting" these poor countries will complain about us abandoning them.
Pretty much agree with everything ElrowLovers has said on this thread.
Oh, and it's good that London has basically seen zero new coronavirus infections in the last 24 hours.
We have to pay for our villa by the 26th - even though the owner has said they will adopt a flexible cancellation policy (4 weeks before, full refund), the booking itself hasn't change on HomeAway... not quite up for being trusting with that amount of cash!
There seem to be a fair few villas available now anyways... and tons for super cheap next year
Oh, and it's good that London has basically seen zero new coronavirus infections in the last 24 hours.
We have to pay for our villa by the 26th - even though the owner has said they will adopt a flexible cancellation policy (4 weeks before, full refund), the booking itself hasn't change on HomeAway... not quite up for being trusting with that amount of cash!
There seem to be a fair few villas available now anyways... and tons for super cheap next year
"The team of researchers estimate around 1.8 million people in London (20%) have already had the disease, suggesting they could have a higher level of immunity, making it harder for the bug to spread."
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/15/lond...une-daily-cases-plummet-12706691/?ito=cbshare
Shame Boris bottled it due to overwhelming pressure / public opinion.
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