mrjamiebear
Active Member
Spose so
☣ Coronavirus ☣
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mrjamiebear
Active Member
We’re finding it difficult in Scotland after Boris speech last night. We’re under 2 governments. Scottish and Westminster.
As I work in construction, Boris says i can go to work whereas Sturgeon says stay home.
Sturgeon- in
Boris- out
Sturgeon- in
Boris- out
Scots feel like we’re doing the Hokey Kokey
As I work in construction, Boris says i can go to work whereas Sturgeon says stay home.
Sturgeon- in
Boris- out
Sturgeon- in
Boris- out
Scots feel like we’re doing the Hokey Kokey
MrHullMysterious
Well-Known Member
Worth a read
I think we also need to make sure we understand been "young" and not dying isn't the same thing as it not been serious or needing medical intervention.
A lot of reports of a long road to recovery for those who get moderate+ symptoms in the range of weeks to months. (My 29 yr old friend says he can barely stand at min)
Having lots of the workforce all off ill at the same time for protracted periods would be not great either.
Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics
Number of deaths registered each month in England and Wales, including deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19), by age, sex and region.
www.ons.gov.uk
I think we also need to make sure we understand been "young" and not dying isn't the same thing as it not been serious or needing medical intervention.
A lot of reports of a long road to recovery for those who get moderate+ symptoms in the range of weeks to months. (My 29 yr old friend says he can barely stand at min)
Having lots of the workforce all off ill at the same time for protracted periods would be not great either.
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced supermarkets are the riskiest places to work or be. Staff are generally quite distanced anyway, in huge buildings. Contact with any customer is brief and not really that close. Does that mean it's safe to crowd people into smaller offices or public transport?
I work in a factory with 200 people, have been working throughout and fortunately not one person has been confirmed with a case. Closest we have had is a storeman's wife having a confirmed case, hospitalised and recovered.
Gut feel tells me this is the real high risk period though with more social movement going to be ongoing. The bubble we have been in is going to change. We are practising good social distancing measures and all wearing masks on the shop floor.
Cant get my head around how childcare and schools are going to return? Just seems mental to have any social distancing measures in class rooms of small children.
Gut feel tells me this is the real high risk period though with more social movement going to be ongoing. The bubble we have been in is going to change. We are practising good social distancing measures and all wearing masks on the shop floor.
Cant get my head around how childcare and schools are going to return? Just seems mental to have any social distancing measures in class rooms of small children.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Interesting stuff from the Netherlands. Now before everyone goes saying: this is no flu..I'm not saying it is. But the media dug up a press article from 2018. In that year...there were 4 influenza strains circulating killing over 8000 people, lots of elderly people including one 28year old. Two of the four strains were new strains. The influenza infections lasted for about 18-20 weeks. This 8000 death toll and the pressure it had on the healthcare in 2018...barely got any attention in the media back then. Hardly anyone remembers it. We are now at little over 5000 deaths here and Covid19 has been circulating for about 10-12 weeks Would be interesting to see if we stay under that 8000 or go over it. I am aware that if we would have done nothing....it would definitely be way over those 8000 people this year, but I still feel the basic measures such as; working from home, no handshakes, no big events and some form of social distancing would probably have had the same effect. Lockdowns have not proven anything for me yet.
Anyway, today schools reopened here and kids are allowed to go to their sportclubs again.
Also hairdressers and beauty salons reopened, some of them were even open at midnight to serve their first customers.
Numbers are still really low. 36 new hospital cases. 16 new deaths. But it's Monday...so as in any other country those numbers tend to be slightly corrected later. But our intensive care capacity has been back to it's normal level for a few days now. I can see the planned reopening of terraces and restaurants on the 1st of June happening.
Anyway, today schools reopened here and kids are allowed to go to their sportclubs again.
Also hairdressers and beauty salons reopened, some of them were even open at midnight to serve their first customers.
Numbers are still really low. 36 new hospital cases. 16 new deaths. But it's Monday...so as in any other country those numbers tend to be slightly corrected later. But our intensive care capacity has been back to it's normal level for a few days now. I can see the planned reopening of terraces and restaurants on the 1st of June happening.
SeoulSaint
Active Member
But how many have had to go through a vicious illness lasting weeks. My other half had a ‘moderate’ case and was out of action for about three weeks. Why is this just about death? It’s a nasty, nasty virus that needs eliminating yet it seems the government is back to the herd immunity thing.
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Crawleytown
Active Member
I do think we’ve collectively lost sight a little bit of the fact that this is a very mild illness for the overwhelming majority of relatively healthy under 60s. Yes there will be anomalies and I’m not underestimating that, but the stats very clearly show that if you’re under 60 and get Coronavirus, chances are you will be absolutely fine. I don’t think that necessarily justifies undoing lockdown on behalf of the people who are vulnerable to dying from it, however.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
I've had this opinion for a while now.
If 'protecting the vulnerable' really is the goal...than that is what we should have been doing all along. While I feel bad for that specific age group...they are the ones that should have been put in quarantine and not the entire population.
65+ mostly in lockdown until there is a vaccine or herd immunity (that last one can take a while...)
65- social distancing, working from home, no big events would have been enough.
Ah well...I feel it has become useless to discuss these points because every country is now in some sort of exit phase out of the lockdown but I'm afraid it takes too long and a lot of damage has already been done.
Crawleytown
Active Member
As tempting as that idea is, it’s not quite as simple as that, the elderly and vulnerable aernt literally shielded and if infections go up in the community of working age adults then they invariably will in that group as well.
We have discussed the counting of deaths on multiple occasions already. There are are number of practical reasons for counting deaths the way they do, least of which is there are still many unknowns about the way COVID-19 kills. Within the last few weeks there have been reports about blood clots and strokes in young people, and an inflammatory disorder similar to Kawasaki's disease in infants.
Lets use the UK for a thought experiment. I will grant you that the UK is has over-counted deaths by 20% so the real number is 25,000 today instead of reported 32,000. Does knowing this information actually make any difference in the way you would act? If you believed lock down was appropriate you still would likely believe that, and if you didn't think it was the correct strategy you still believe that.
A new study out of the University of Glasgow suggest that those dying of COVID-19 have on average died 10 years earlier than expected. While I have some concerns about the methodology and therefore the validity of the specific claims, I support the general finding that COVID-19 is not killing only those already on deaths doorstep.
soulcompromise
No longer active
Here is one from the US
and this one
I hope this is helpful. It's not meant to be inflammatory, but if it's deemed inappropriate, I understand.
Nostalgic
No longer active
My girlfriends step dads dad was 72. He was given weeks to live by the docs for prostate cancer, he picked up Covid whilst in hospital yet his death has been registered as Covid. He would of died anyway because of the cancer, so to me this is where it is inaccurate.
Apologies for the edit. Brain fog
Apologies for the edit. Brain fog
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FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the loss of your girlfriends step dad.
All countries are registering the deaths WITH Covid this way (instead of FROM Covid) and it is so wrong. It creates a wrong perspective and gives the governments more leverage to maintain their lockdowns and other rules.
SeoulSaint
Active Member
As above, there’s more to covid than death! How many people who come out alive from ICU now face months of rehab to get their body working again. Sure mortality is useful, but it’s not everything in determining things like lockdowns.
So by your reckoning then, if a burglar had broken in and smacked him one, it wouldn't count as murder as he didn't have long anyway....especially if it was only tap as someone with no underlying health issue would have sprung right back up.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that a percentage of people, however fit and healthy, end up requiring intensive care and if the number of people contracting the virus escalates then so does the number of people requiring intensive care, potentially overwhelming the hospitals' ability to cope and causing further deaths of people with unrelated ailments that couldn't be treated.
FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Im not overlooking that. The percentage of people under 65 putting that pressure on the IC capacity (in the Netherlands but this probably accounts for all countries) is also too low to justify lockdowns for everyone.
Nostalgic
No longer active
It wouldn't have been death by one punch on the death certificate though would it.
There wasn't even a mention of cancer on it just Covid. Its bypassed everything which isn't right.
What are the current figures for death by covid only? Not projected, current figures.
Its all about being fair, show the recovery rates aswell as the death rates, show the direct death and non direct death due to covid. Media don't do that its all about the morbid news because it sells better, they have a huge influence on things being done.
Common sense approach is the way to be, I was in Singapore in Feb when it was rife and came back with no problems just by using common sense.
Temperature checks everywhere we went. Hardly costing the earth to do either
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