☣ Coronavirus ☣

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chez said:
No I get where your coming from it is just two randoms on fb, just seems mind blowing why people would make that up.. seems to be normal people going by their profiles who have apparently lost someone, if they are both infact telling some kind of truth then it would back up what people have thought about the stats being inaccurate that's all

Hardly some kind of mad conspiracy on my behalf, just something to think about when people are concentrating purely on statistics
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It's not a conspiracy that Covid-19 is being recorded as the cause of death when its suspected and no test was done to check.

The First Minister of Scotland confirmed this is being done so I suspect its happening in other countries as well.

So some people are saying the figures are being inflated while others are saying they are being suppressed ?‍♂️
 
IainB2 said:
It's not a conspiracy that Covid-19 is being recorded as the cause of death when its suspected and no test was done to check.

The First Minister of Scotland confirmed this is being done so I suspect its happening in other countries as well.

So some people are saying the figures are being inflated while others are saying they are being suppressed ?‍♂️
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Raises the question, how many deceased were carrying Covid but it wasn't that that killed them? Eg heart failure or some other fatal illness?
 
What's the situation on Formentera? Their first patient was reportedly discharged today, and I remember there only being like 4 COVID-19 cases there with no recent new cases.

Does it mean Formentera is virus free by now, apart from the 3 remaining coronavirus patients?

Is the ferry from Formentera to Ibiza still operating, or has all movement of persons stopped in order to avoid importing more infections?
 
2H76 said:
Raises the question, how many deceased were carrying Covid but it wasn't that that killed them? Eg heart failure or some other fatal illness?
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This is why the excess deaths is so important, i.e. comparing last year or the last few years. That way we have a fair idea how many people ‘should’ probably die this year. Of course there is fluctuation to consider, such as western nations mainly having ageing growing populations, and the impact that has on mortality.
 
tclubber said:
What's the situation on Formentera? Their first patient was reportedly discharged today, and I remember there only being like 4 COVID-19 cases there with no recent new cases.

Does it mean Formentera is virus free by now, apart from the 3 remaining coronavirus patients?

Is the ferry from Formentera to Ibiza still operating, or has all movement of persons stopped in order to avoid importing more infections?
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if I remember correctly there's like 3 daily ferries currently (I might be wrong). and as we're on lockdown, you need to have a good reason to travel to or from formentera so I believe the ferry isn't very busy right now.

as for 'virus free'...I wouldn't go as far as that yet. there haven't been any new DETECTED cases, but the probability is high that there are asymptomatic carriers and even people who never even report to the doctor even though they know they probably have it (I'm 100% certain this happens far more than we think, globally.).

so...a lot of testing and waiting to be done still before we can declare anywhere corona-free I think.
 
2H76 said:
Raises the question, how many deceased were carrying Covid but it wasn't that that killed them? Eg heart failure or some other fatal illness?
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At this point in time, all that matters is that whoever is keeping track is consistent. Researchers will be studying this for years trying to clean up the data to get more precise counts. Under count and use a very strict criteria to classify as COVID-19 and researchers can add the other deaths back later or over count and remove (normalize) later. The stats don't need to be 100% "accurate" at this point. It just needs to be good enough to inform policy decisions.

Im sure you could find some odd examples of people counted as COVID-19 death out of the 100,000+ dead. But trying to sort out whether someone had a 'natural' heart failure vs poor lung function from COVID-19 leading to decreased oxygen in the blood resulting in weakening of the heart muscle (heart failure) is a substantial task. There are far too many dead for countries to conduct autopsies for an exact cause of death, leaving aside the fact that dead bodies can remain infectious for a period of time. An asymptomatic COVID-19 person who got run over by a car still needs to be tagged COVID+ for safe disposal for example.

There is no conspiracy here. Just people who are scared or grieving a loss and don't have the knowledge to understand what is actually happening. Its not their fault, its a totally normal psychological response to try and make chaos make sense one way or the other.
 
Johnny Vodka said:
People don't really need meat to survive; in fact, we'd be healthier not eating it. IMO we need to get to the point with meat where it's seen as a treat. Those cheap chicken dinners contribute to a load of health issues; I can't help but think they are the lazy solution to feeding poorer people. Also, livestock farming accelerates climate change. I enjoy eating meat, but generally only have it now 3x a week (which is still probably too often). I have been eating loads more cheese and eggs recently for lunch; need to get on with making those bean soups... And back to buying oat milk. :lol:
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No way!

I had you down as a full on veganist for some reason Johnny ?
 
Crawleytown said:
Pretty somber note from the main UK expert Prof Whitty today. This guy is pretty much the only ‘expert’ who I listen to at the moment, essentially confirming there is no way back to full normal until a vaccine or cure is found :(
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I saw that too and got the same message pretty much.

I like the bloke as well, he has a good grasp of what he is talking about.
 
Crawleytown said:
Pretty somber note from the main UK expert Prof Whitty today. This guy is pretty much the only ‘expert’ who I listen to at the moment, essentially confirming there is no way back to full normal until a vaccine or cure is found :(
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Same message as the medical experts are delivering here. And still measures are slowly being withdrawn.
Because...does that guy, how smart and highly placed in the medical world he may be, decide if and when things return to full normal or not?
All governments have been listening to medical experts only in the first period. The time has come for most governments to at least get some counteradvises from other expertises too.
 
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