COCOON @ Amnesia 2017

I think my point is it's a slippery slope if a moral witchhunt is going to target DJs in this way. Should grooverider for instance have been blacklisted by clubs for his dubai criminal conviction? I'd say no. But if he had come back and added that he thought everyone in Dubai was a dirty arab, then there's a strong chance he would have lost a lot of gigs. So you can get blacklisted for expressing opinions but not for criminal behaviour. anyway, not related to cocoon, just thought i'd throw it out there
 
I think the "DJ" part is the bit which is irrelevant. If i voiced narrow-minded discriminatory comments and my employer got wind of it, then I'd be in trouble too. Why should DJs get a free pass?

If anything they should be be more under the microscope because it could be perceived that they're role-models to a lot of impressionable kids, much like footballers.

I'm sure you agree that laws in Dubai and other deeply conservative places are pretty batshit crazy. So I'm not sure that's really a good example.

But of course being convicted of criminal behaviour - depending on the crime - will affect your employment status irrespective of your job, in much the same way.
 
Unless you're a elected politician, in which case criminality merely comes with the territory :lol:
 
I only used grooverider as an example of someone who hasn't been blacklisted for criminal activity probably because drugs go hand in hand with dance music in a way they don't with say working in the priesthood or chartered accountancy or whatever... so I guess it IS relevant. now I think we'd all agree that the world would be a better place if DJs didn't act or think like pricks. but they occasionally do, so the question then is should these people be run out of town for expressing legally held (if not exactly enlightened..) opinions - whilst we at the same time turn a blind eye to the arguably more serious criminal culture that this entire industry is founded on? Who in this industry is really in a position to get on their high horse? none of which should let these idiots off the hook, but ending their careers for sharing a few crass opinions? that's a dark path, as history shows..
 
There is obviously a long way to go in terms of ending prohibition and making the drug trade ethical (Though doing one might result in the other)

Is doing drugs in-and-of itself immoral? Not sure. If there were an ethical alternative...
It depends on your own moral code I suppose. I think he got deservedly called out.

Let's not forget he could've held these opinions in hateful silence, and we'd be none the wiser (in the same sense you could be a raging drug-user and never be found out unless you're silly enough to brag about it/get caught)

What makes the matter worse is his arrogance/stupidity of voicing said views to a women's publication!!

A bit like Grooverider approaching a Arab policeman and bragging about possessing weed. No sympathy here.
 
i wasn't trying to start a drug debate (my views are aligned with yours) - just pointing out how an outsider might find the moral outrage a bit inconsistent. I increasingly take the view that if someone is a dick, I will just avoid them, but I don't want to be part of the mob. There's a whole wider political debate to be had there, but just in terms of music, it is obviously up to clubs/promoters how to respond and ultimately crowds (and not social media umpires) to decide who they want to dance to.
 
Amp and Deck said:
There's a whole wider political debate to be had there, but just in terms of music, it is obviously up to clubs/promoters how to respond and ultimately crowds (and not social media umpires) to decide who they want to dance to.
Click to expand...

I agree. And I think that generally speaking promoters/venues will use their own judgement accordingly. Behind these brands are people afterall.

My original comment re: the situation was more about the inconsistency in Cocoon's stance ie. Banishing Ten Walls for homophobic comments, but seemingly not taking any action against Konstantin for misogynistic comments.

Felt for sure they would take the same approach.
 
without wanting to take sides...I *think* the fine difference between the ten walls case is that there it was out in the open and 100% obvious whereas in the konstantin case he says the article does not reflect his thoughts / opinions.
 
also, with ten walls it was himself posting.

with konstantin it was a journo doing a piece.

again I really don't want to take sides or try to defend anyone, but IMO it's really not the same thing. I'm 110% sure konstantin wouldn't play cocoon tonight had he actually done a fb post himself containing the info in that article.

that's my take on the whole thing anyway
 
OK who's going to Cocoon tonight, I'm just getting ready now, flight home first thing I morning tho :eek:
 
first: I don't share Konstantins views, whether he meant them as printed (which I actually think) or not.
However, it's a very different thing to generally say women can't dj or to say that gays are sick people, not normal and the other terrible stuff ten walls said. How many people do you know among family and friends who say that women can't park. It's the same stupid opinion but should you lose your jobs for uttering it? Konstantin is a chauvinist but trying to ban him from his profession is PC running wild I think.
 
If we're attempting to quantity levels of acceptable behaviour - which in itself is very subjective - then I agree that what Ten Walls said was significantly more vulgar. But that doesn't mean that Konstantin shouldn't be addressed. It may be less appalling. But it is still very much unacceptable.

I'm not advocating him losing gigs per se. That will ultimately fall to bookers - their own judgment, and whether his popularity will take a hit as a result of his opinions.

But me, personally, I have taken the decision to not be spending any more money on him. As a producer, I rate him (as I do Ten Walls) And I was looking forward to seeing him play at Sunfall.

Of course the circumstances of how these 2 separate instances surfaced is different. But I think when even your closest colleagues - colleagues who's careers are now also likely to suffer a hit - acknowledge that these views are not a surprise, it speaks volumes.

Whilst I'd never defend Ten Walls (as documented on these forums) - it's also worth mentioning that Konstantin comes from a considerably more liberal culture. Which makes his views highly disappointing.
 
Hey all, what time is usually good to head to cocoon to slide in without too much line? Will be there for July 31st. Thinking of popping into circoloco beforehand though.

Last time I was in Ibiza 4 years ago I saw Sven close Richie Hawtins Enter at Space and it was the pinnacle of my clubbing career. I have a feeling this is gonna top it!
 
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