The Passion of Christ

I am doing my PhD in New Testament currently and not because I am a believer but because I find it interesting. In my opinion when one talks about religion, they aren't necessarily talking about faith. Faith is individual and it isn't faith that started the crusades or the reason why Constantine said he saw the cross in battle, or the reason why Muhammad began to "dictate" his visions. Faith is the individual ability to believe in something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and can be used for anything, not just a deity. Religion, on the other hand, and religious figures (Church fathers, Jesus, the gospel writers, Paul, monks, supposed bodhisattvas, sannyasis...anyone...) is a socio-political formation. Books were written to describe the present state of their world and who was in and out of the circle. When Judah was invaded and overtaken even though it was said it would always be governed by a son of David, writers and those in positions of certain literary (and therefore social and political power since only the elite could read) books were written using already authoritative myths to create NEW myths that would still maintain God's (read elite priests and kings) infallibility. Noah isn't the first figure to survive a flood (read Epic of Gilgamesh) nor will he be the last...

When Jesus came along, he wasn't the only one claiming to be a Messiah. There are documents that suggest he was one of many doing that. The gospels and the rest of the Bible are not to be read as a coherent document but as a library that hold artifacts of specific and competing Jesus traditions. I think the fault that staunch believers make is that they cannot reconcile history with their own indoctrinization and/or faith. They do what so many people before them have done: draw circles around themselves and decide who is in and who is out based on beliefs that are black or white. It is a contest for many. YOU MUST BELIEVE IN THIS in order to be saved. But what many church leaders are doing themselves is the same as what those who followed Mark's gospel (as an example of one community) were doing: writing certain rules and regulations so to create a community in which they are the head and to make sure that the community has movement and legitimacy. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with faith. A leader can not round up all faiths and create a community out of it because there would be no way for someone to lead that group. It isn't conducive for group and community formation. When someone tells me it is just a matter of faith, well, it shouldn't matter then if that faith is directed toward Jesus or toward Krishna,yet it does and that is because it isn't REALLY about faith it is about falling prey to this concept of what "group" is really true. Fear about being including in the right group because of fears passed on from the tradition most of us derive.

Sorry this was so long...I am in the middle of writing final papers and have been writing some of these same things...SORRY :oops:
 
I think what he preached was fantastic! However, Christianity is not his religion. It's someone's own translation on what he said based on the moral fabric of society during those times.
I think Jesus Christ would be horrified if he saw how his teachings have been branded.

It's rather like hip hop - a form of music that was 'real' and came from the ghetto to bring people together and give them hope. Record companies get hold of it and it turns into elitist pap that spouts off about bling jewellery and all the things it originally protested against.

:lol: at me going into a hip hop rant! :confused: :confused: :confused: :lol: There's logic in there somewhere kids. I'm having to listen to a 50 cents album today and am not best pleased. :lol:

How did Rob's Hip-Hop/Religion parallel pass without comment? :lol:
 
I am doing my PhD in New Testament currently and not because I am a believer but because I find it interesting. In my opinion when one talks about religion, they aren't necessarily talking about faith. Faith is individual and it isn't faith that started the crusades or the reason why Constantine said he saw the cross in battle, or the reason why Muhammad began to "dictate" his visions. Faith is the individual ability to believe in something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and can be used for anything, not just a deity. Religion, on the other hand, and religious figures (Church fathers, Jesus, the gospel writers, Paul, monks, supposed bodhisattvas, sannyasis...anyone...) is a socio-political formation. Books were written to describe the present state of their world and who was in and out of the circle. When Judah was invaded and overtaken even though it was said it would always be governed by a son of David, writers and those in positions of certain literary (and therefore social and political power since only the elite could read) books were written using already authoritative myths to create NEW myths that would still maintain God's (read elite priests and kings) infallibility. Noah isn't the first figure to survive a flood (read Epic of Gilgamesh) nor will he be the last...

When Jesus came along, he wasn't the only one claiming to be a Messiah. There are documents that suggest he was one of many doing that. The gospels and the rest of the Bible are not to be read as a coherent document but as a library that hold artifacts of specific and competing Jesus traditions. I think the fault that staunch believers make is that they cannot reconcile history with their own indoctrinization and/or faith. They do what so many people before them have done: draw circles around themselves and decide who is in and who is out based on beliefs that are black or white. It is a contest for many. YOU MUST BELIEVE IN THIS in order to be saved. But what many church leaders are doing themselves is the same as what those who followed Mark's gospel (as an example of one community) were doing: writing certain rules and regulations so to create a community in which they are the head and to make sure that the community has movement and legitimacy. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with faith. A leader can not round up all faiths and create a community out of it because there would be no way for someone to lead that group. It isn't conducive for group and community formation. When someone tells me it is just a matter of faith, well, it shouldn't matter then if that faith is directed toward Jesus or toward Krishna,yet it does and that is because it isn't REALLY about faith it is about falling prey to this concept of what "group" is really true. Fear about being including in the right group because of fears passed on from the tradition most of us derive.

Sorry this was so long...I am in the middle of writing final papers and have been writing some of these same things...SORRY :oops:

the ultimate cure for insomnia
 
I hate religion. I really do. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, whatever, you're all idiots. You might as well live your life my the morals set out by Winnie the Pooh.

Despise it. Gah!
 
the ultimate cure for insomnia
Hey! Be nice. Anjali doesn't hang around here anymore and can't defend herself.

In her defense, she's a really smart girl and was simply adding a bit of intellectuality to this argument. Putting some of this into context, which she is more qualified than most of us to do.

Oh, and she was smoking hot.
 
What? The Bible says, Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness... I only speak the truth!

Buckleyism, on the other hand, teaches that even when your better half tells you it is only natural that you recognise the attractiveness of other women, she's already holding it against you.
 
Buckleyism, on the other hand, teaches that even when your better half tells you it is only natural that you recognise the attractiveness of other women, she's already holding it against you.
Oh, I know... and totally agree.

Thank god she doesn't read the forum anymore!
 
I hate religion. I really do. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, whatever, you're all idiots. You might as well live your life my the morals set out by Winnie the Pooh.

Despise it. Gah!
You see that there...that above....thats an atheist fundamentalist rant that is....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You see that there...that above....thats an atheist fundamentalist rant that is....

I'm agnostic. I'm open to the possibility of there being something else. But organised religions just irritate the tis off me. They are the root cause of more bad than good.

I have no issue with religious types that just quietly go about their business, but the ones that feel need to ram their beliefs down my throat do my head in.
 
I think man is the root cause of all evil. Religion is just an excuse to vent the inner rage. Much like football, race, anything that is deemed different to the said person. Man will always be at conflict with himself and consiquently others.

Take religion out of the equation and your still left with war and hatred.
 
"I believe"

I believe
I believe sometimes I touch
I believe, love
I deserve
I deserve, much more than this
I deserve love

This is hopeless now
As the minute stall
Sometimes I don't mind at all
Particularly the times with you

I believe
I believe sometimes I touch
I believe, love

This is hopeless now
As the minute stall
Sometimes I don't mind at all
Particularly the times with...

(love...)

I believe
I believe sometimes I touch you
I believe, love

This is hopeless now
As the minute stall
Sometimes I don't mind at all
Particularly the times with you
Particularly the times with you
Particularly the times with... love
love, love
It's long time, it's long time!

(love...)

O.K. that's fine as long as you believe
The only things moving don't mean a thing
Can you believe it, it's getting blue
Straight through, line for line, trash

Believe
Don't touch this
Believe
Don't touch this
Believe

(I believe... believe...)
 
Back
Top