The footy !!

grego said:
as for torres and gerrard, they won't leave. i'm not being blind, gerrard will stay forever and it'd take a relegation for us to lose torres.
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I think you're right about Gerrard, he is Mr Liverpool and I can't see him leaving, but Torres is another matter. He is probably the best striker in the world when fit, and the best striker in the world HAS to be playing in the Champion's League. If 'pool don't qualify next year he'll definitely want to leave. Where he would go would be another matter though. Apparently he won't play for anyone other than Atletico in Spain, and i can't see him wanting to 'betray' Liverpool by moving to another Premier League team. Maybe AC or Inter would be willing to break the bank for him?

All hypothetical though, i think you still have a chance of 4th spot, and that's coming from a Spurs fan. Hope i'm wrong though :)
 
the only way torres would leave is if he has some ridiculously immense world cup and someone offers silly money for him. even then, and whatever the price, his sale would be deemed as unacceptable.

thing is, the reason the fan's have an affinity to torres goes beyond his ability as a player, it is because he has bought into unreservedly what it is to be a liverpool player (even before he had signed for us in fact) and on that basis, you can't apply 'normal' logic of one season out of the champs league = he's off.
 
grego said:
thing is, the reason the fan's have an affinity to torres goes beyond his ability as a player, it is because he has bought into unreservedly what it is to be a liverpool player (even before he had signed for us in fact) and on that basis, you can't apply 'normal' logic of one season out of the champs league = he's off.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

We'll see when someone starts waving a big wad of cash in his face and Champions League football.

;)
 
grego said:
it is because he has bought into unreservedly what it is to be a liverpool player (even before he had signed for us in fact) and on that basis, you can't apply 'normal' logic of one season out of the champs league = he's off.
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A fair comment, and i do concede that Torres seems more committed to the Liverpool cause than your average foreign Premier League star, BUT - players of his calibre want one thing - silverware, and if Liverpool don't look like providing that for him next season and beyond then he will definitely be off. He's not a homegrown player, Liverpool is not in his blood the way it is with Gerrard and Carragher. Despite how he acts or what he might say, his loyalty will only stretch so far i think.

Edit: Also, a player as injury prone as Torres may have a very short shelf life, one season out of the Champion's League would be a massive consideration for him.
 
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grego said:
the only way torres would leave is if he has some ridiculously immense world cup and someone offers silly money for him. even then, and whatever the price, his sale would be deemed as unacceptable.

thing is, the reason the fan's have an affinity to torres goes beyond his ability as a player, it is because he has bought into unreservedly what it is to be a liverpool player (even before he had signed for us in fact) and on that basis, you can't apply 'normal' logic of one season out of the champs league = he's off.
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Football fandom in action Gregatello, ol' mucker. There is no way that makes sense unless the logic-defying fanaticism of a true supporter is applied.
 
to the last 3 posts,

big wad of cash?? there are few other clubs in the world that would even consider paying him more than he gets now (and even fewer that are even possibles, and fewer still that would likely bid).

as for the CL football. he's played about 2 seasons of champs league football. moreover, a little over 2 seasons ago, he'd never played a champions league game in his life. so on the back of one other season potentially out of it, it's hardly a dealbreaker really.

injury prone - up until last season, he'd hardly had any time out as a player, playing pretty much 40+ games per season his whole career. even last year, he played 40 games. this year hasn't been great i admit.

buckers - don't really know what you mean, other than torres doesn't fit into the "i need CL football every season" category. he had plenty of opportunities to leave atleti and he didn't when CL football/big cash/trophies were up for grabs.
 
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grego said:
to the last 3 posts,

big wad of cash?? there are few other clubs in the world that would even consider paying him more than he gets now (and even fewer that are even possibles, and fewer still that would likely bid).

as for the CL football. he's played about 2 seasons of champs league football. moreover, a little over 2 seasons ago, he'd never played a champions league game in his life. so on the back of one other season potentially out of it, it's hardly a dealbreaker really.

injury prone - up until last season, he'd hardly had any time out as a player, playing pretty much 40+ games per season his whole career. even last year, he played 40 games. this year hasn't been great i admit.

buckers - don't really know what you mean, other than torres doesn't fit into the "i need CL football every season" category. he had plenty of opportunities to leave atleti and he didn't when CL football/big cash/trophies were up for grabs.
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Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Real, Barca, AC & Inter Milan - 7 clubs that would no doubt willingly match or increase his current wage and would all love to have Torres in their team. Admittedly, as mentioned earlier he would be unlikely to go to another English or Spanish club, but money and trophies talk very loudly to professional footballers so who knows.

With regards your Champion's League theory/arguement, I think you're wrong. It's all very well saying he's only played in 2 campaigns, but once you've had a taste, it would be very difficult to go backwards. Tried to think of an analogy to illustrate this - if you upgraded your ipod headphones from the standard issue ones to a decent set, you'd then never go back to the old ones would you?

Injury-wise, maybe i didn't do the research on his previous seasons, but i'm going by the latter part of last season and this one, and there are worrying signs for him i think. Could be another Van-Basten.

I do think your view is a bit blinkererd by your love of Liverpool and Torres, he's still only a young guy and may not have been ready personally or professionally to leave Spain before he did. He's only 25 now, and would have been 23 (?) when he moved to Liverpool, a pretty young age, so claiming he had the opportunity to go to bigger clubs in search of money and trophies before that doesn't really compute to be honest.
 
djchewie said:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

We'll see when someone starts waving a big wad of cash in his face and Champions League football.

;)
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Spoken like a true Spurs fan....


Class players don't leave for money.


Look at the Ex Arse Man Citeh glory hunters....

I mean if football was the number one priority, who in their right mind would leave the Arsenal system and head for unchartered waters?

Adebayor
Toure


...and Tevez

All money grabbers without class...
 
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tristanbaldock said:
Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Real, Barca, AC & Inter Milan - 7 clubs that would no doubt willingly match or increase his current wage and would all love to have Torres in their team. Admittedly, as mentioned earlier he would be unlikely to go to another English or Spanish club, but money and trophies talk very loudly to professional footballers so who knows.
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I disagree about Real and Barca wanting him. Torres in Spain is not considered to be as good as Villa for example, so both those clubs would probably go for Villa first.
The way Barca play (and Real want to play) requires someone like Villa with very tight close control and someone who can move in tight spaces. In Spain Torres is seen more as a pacey player who can be lethal with room to run into.

This is why Villa's record for Spain is so much better than Torres IMO, Spain tend to play the Barca way.

Another reason I don't think Torres will be going to Spain too soon is pride. Whenever he is interviewed in Spain you can tell from his voice he would feel like he failed if he doesn't win a big trophy with Liverpool.
 
Jam Man said:
Adebayor
Toure
...and Tevez

All money grabbers without class...
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I have disagree on 2 out of the 3.

Wenger had started to marginalize Toure last season. He probably would have been 3rd choice behind Gallas and Vermillian (sp). I think his move was as much or more for footballing reasons.

Same with Tevez, only I think his move to City was more complicated. This is a guy who, with all his money, refuses to get that ugly scar zapped off his neck because that's who is he and where he comes from. He strikes me as the type of guy who doesn't forget his humble upbringing. And I believe that he wasn't especially well treated by Sir Alex and the Man U board, who didn't appear willing to pay the transfer fee they'd already tentatively agreed for him.

Adebayor - yes, agree on that one.
 
tristanbaldock said:
Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Real, Barca, AC & Inter Milan - 7 clubs that would no doubt willingly match or increase his current wage and would all love to have Torres in their team. Admittedly, as mentioned earlier he would be unlikely to go to another English or Spanish club, but money and trophies talk very loudly to professional footballers so who knows.

With regards your Champion's League theory/arguement, I think you're wrong. It's all very well saying he's only played in 2 campaigns, but once you've had a taste, it would be very difficult to go backwards. Tried to think of an analogy to illustrate this - if you upgraded your ipod headphones from the standard issue ones to a decent set, you'd then never go back to the old ones would you?

Injury-wise, maybe i didn't do the research on his previous seasons, but i'm going by the latter part of last season and this one, and there are worrying signs for him i think. Could be another Van-Basten.

I do think your view is a bit blinkererd by your love of Liverpool and Torres, he's still only a young guy and may not have been ready personally or professionally to leave Spain before he did. He's only 25 now, and would have been 23 (?) when he moved to Liverpool, a pretty young age, so claiming he had the opportunity to go to bigger clubs in search of money and trophies before that doesn't really compute to be honest.
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well some of the subsequent posts have partly answered and i still think you're left with 1 possibly 2 clubs at a push that would be possible places for him to go, that he'd move to. which is why i'm happy to have a bet with bez that he'll be with us next season.

re the CL thing. i understand, but if i had to use crappy headphones for a year i could live with it. before it was talked about winning trophies, just being out of the CL isn't the only thing.

re blinkered views. i'm basing my opinion on the fact that i KNOW that a majority of our players don't give a **** and would prolly move on without a second thought. others buy into the club and its ethos, the likes of sami hyppia, vladimir smicer (albeit he was crap). they were different and the fans knew, in the case of smicer you couldn't even put it down to work rate or being a good player, it was the attitude. torres is the same. if i was blinkered, it would be because he's an amazing player playing for my club, it's nothing to do with that.

23 in football is not young. rooney moved to united when, what 18/19. messi's been the best in the world since the same age. anyway, the point is not so much to do with his age, but to do with his mentality. whether he was 19 or 29, torres would never play for real madrid and now, he'll never play for united nor probably chelsea.
 
Ferd said:
Sorry Grego and Liam, :twisted:

This is Maxi Rodriguez's reaction to his move to Liverpool in a press conference after seeing Liverpool v Reading..

;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMKTkUpj6cA
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:lol::lol::lol:

whilst we're on the point, and again forgetting the footballing side of things. this is how you'd expect most normal people to react after leaving somewhere that has been a profound part of their lives. rafa did the same when he reluctantly had to leave valencia after doing the unimaginable there.

so on that basis, welcome on board maxi.
 
Jam Man said:
...and Tevez

All money grabbers without class...
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what a load unreserached bunkum!!!

this is a guy who grew up in one of the poorest parts of buenos aries, who refused the offer of plastic surgery from Boca Juniors to remove the scars from when he was scalded because the scars were "who he was". this is a guy who waited until he was happy with his daughter was placed in the right school before enterring into any negotiations with City. he didnt feel valued by Fergie, despite his habit of turning games around when he came off the bench, he was revered at City before he even kicked a ball because of the way he plays and he is doing his talking, as ever, on the field, not only with his goals but his general play and attitude. The signing of the Summer bar none!!
 
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