Teachers
- Thread starter Buckley
- Start date
Buckley
Well-Known Member
So righteous indignation aside, some teachers do normal hours and their ten weeks plus a year holiday are actually spent working?
I'm afraid you've been had sir.
SeldomSeenKid
Member
This amuses me and I cannot help but comment, do you actually think this isn't what a lot of peoples working lives are like? I am an average Joe looking after all of the Dr's in my local hospital, I work from 7 until 5 daily and don't take a lunch break as I don't need to. I earn a little over 20k and get called all times of day and night as it's my job to make sure all shifts are covered. Hence my job is pretty important too. 22 days off a year, often still working at 10 or 11 at night I regularly work 50 hours a week mate often hitting 60, as do I am sure countless other people on here. It's super-stressful as the safety of the patients relies on me doing my job. But you know what, along with all that, comes a whole heap of satisfaction and I wouldn't ever want to change it. I personally think teachers salaries are correct for the responsibility of the job but please, please stop bleating.
Electronic_Liberalism
Member
Oh dear
You're really not very clever, are you? It is becoming more and more apparent why you might have some sort of grudge with teachers with every new post you make.You keep harping on about 'normal' this and 'normal' that and 'other professional jobs' this and 'other professional jobs' that - without any evidence whatsoever to back up these wild claims.
The Government describes on its website full-time work as being '35 hours or more a week'. From past experience of another job in a leading British industry, a full-time contract had workers doing 38-hours-a-week. So, Buckley, what exactly is 'normal' to you and all these other professionals you seem to know so intimately?
Again, your definition of normal, is clearly not normal. And that is half of your problem sir.
Electronic_Liberalism
Member
Firstly, how am I bleating? I am merely defending an unsubstantiated claim that the teaching profession is somehow a part-time job. As we've now established that your hours are similar to that of a teacher, would you describe your job as part-time? Would you feel offended if someone with little knowledge of your job role described it as that? I think the answer to those questions is no and yes.
Lots of people do work long hours, yes, I have never disputed that, have I? I'm very well aware of that from my own job. Plenty probably work harder than teachers do. But trying to make out teachers are on a jolly is nonsense. As is trying to make out that the majority of people work hours as described by yourself above or that of a teacher. The latest report from the Office of National Statistics said that British full-time workers work on average 42.7 hours a week, compared to the EU average of 37.4. So, again, proof that teachers are among the hardest working in our society and deserve more than uneducated (ironic, hey?) and uninformed digs. But I guess that's what you can expect on the internet these days?
In an ideal world, it would be lovely to pay teachers more. But it isn't an ideal world and, that in mind, I think they get paid a fair salary. That said, if some in the industry want to lobby for better pay, then that is their right and I will leave them to it. No grudges here. After all, they are by no means the only profession that have tried to get better pay deals, are they?
SeldomSeenKid
Member
It reads rather as a "woe is me" statement but you won't see it as you wrote it.
Lies, damn lies and statistics, you seem quite hung up on these numbers but I'm not sure figures really give a true representation of what working life is actually like for any of us, I for one have never been asked what my actual working hours are, ever. In my trust the standard hours are 37.5 so no doubt this is what the statisticians believe we work, therefore it's most likely bunkum. I don't know anyone who is getting even close to this dream number.
I kind of take the point about the "part-time" slur as it is often leveled at this one profession but even accounting for the extra days and hours done over the holidays, the amount of time off far exceeds anything most working people can dream of. If you think of one of the most thankless areas of work - retail and bar work - these people can't even be guaranteed Christmas day off anymore and sure do put up with the worst kinds of people. It's best before pontificating to always consider how lucky we actually are.
P.S. Just so you don't assume we're all ignorant of the realities, my sister is a teacher of 20 years and she works hard just as the overwhelming majority do but she freely admits the stark contrast in the amount of free time she has compared to myself, my siblings and my parents. My friend Dave, also a teacher, thinks he has the life of Riley.
I also worked with teachers for 6 years in a pastoral support role so I am coming at this from a personally involved POV.
Anyway, I have work to do......
Lies, damn lies and statistics, you seem quite hung up on these numbers but I'm not sure figures really give a true representation of what working life is actually like for any of us, I for one have never been asked what my actual working hours are, ever. In my trust the standard hours are 37.5 so no doubt this is what the statisticians believe we work, therefore it's most likely bunkum. I don't know anyone who is getting even close to this dream number.
I kind of take the point about the "part-time" slur as it is often leveled at this one profession but even accounting for the extra days and hours done over the holidays, the amount of time off far exceeds anything most working people can dream of. If you think of one of the most thankless areas of work - retail and bar work - these people can't even be guaranteed Christmas day off anymore and sure do put up with the worst kinds of people. It's best before pontificating to always consider how lucky we actually are.
P.S. Just so you don't assume we're all ignorant of the realities, my sister is a teacher of 20 years and she works hard just as the overwhelming majority do but she freely admits the stark contrast in the amount of free time she has compared to myself, my siblings and my parents. My friend Dave, also a teacher, thinks he has the life of Riley.
I also worked with teachers for 6 years in a pastoral support role so I am coming at this from a personally involved POV.
Anyway, I have work to do......
Thank you SSK.
Having worked in this industry for the best part of a decade I can tell you that the hours (especially over the busy festive period where almost everybody else - including teachers - have off) are long & anti-social.
The pay is s h i t.
You deal with the worst kind of people - drunk people.
And the vast majority of workers do not have a union backing them up.
The last 2 years, because of where the days in the week fell, I didn't even have the luxury of having New Year's Day off because they were a weekend night.
Bonuses are non-existant. Additional pay (time and a half) was limited to the period from midnight to end of shift on Xmas day & NYE only. All other bank holiday hours were standard rate.
The one day I was guarenteed off each year (Xmas day) was a write-off because I was so knackered after all the extra hours. So quality time with the family & loved ones was limited at best.
The only thing that kept me in that job sooo long was because I loved it. I loved every minute.
I was passionate about it. Presumably the same as teachers are about their job, no? Or at least they should be.
No, the satisfaction of giving joe public 6-odd hours of escapism from their humdrum 9-5 existance each weekend is never going to outweigh the satisfaction of developing and educating our next generation.
But it is no secret what the teacher profession involves. They are all fully aware when they sign-up. Surely the extentive holiday time is the deal-breaker. Yes, their workload is huge and yes they often have to deal with stressful situations. But surely the 12+ weeks off a year counter-balance that?
Last edited by a moderator:
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
I can appreciate drunks can be a pain or nasty, but bar staff at least have bouncers to back them up (and do you think some kids don't turn up to school high on weed or having had booze?). Got to remember many teachers entered the profession when kids had a bit more respect and perhaps parents put more value on teachers too.
Anyone I know who's worked as a lecturer/teacher over a few decades says the same thing: that it's got a lot tougher, while there are more targets to be met. (I suspect some of the perception of teachers is to do with that pushed by politicians. Plus it's easier to blame teachers when parents aren't putting the work in in raising kids...) How are you meant to help kids academically when there's guaranteed to be a few in a class who just want to disrupt?
A teacher has to be so many things in the one role.
Anyone I know who's worked as a lecturer/teacher over a few decades says the same thing: that it's got a lot tougher, while there are more targets to be met. (I suspect some of the perception of teachers is to do with that pushed by politicians. Plus it's easier to blame teachers when parents aren't putting the work in in raising kids...) How are you meant to help kids academically when there's guaranteed to be a few in a class who just want to disrupt?
A teacher has to be so many things in the one role.
Teachers don't get paid over the holidays.
So your 22 days is more than teachers. They have a job until June, then have to go find a new one. Like I said, I found out I had one the day school started this year (at a different school)
I get two weeks at Christmas and a week at Easter, and then there are there more Mondays I get off as public holidays. That's it.
So when people say, "But teachers get so many holidays!" They don't!
People always think they are an expert on teaching because they either
1. Went to school
1. Have a sister's cousins's best friend who went to school
You are right! Retail and bar work is a thankless job!
I have worked in loads and loads of bars over the year. I think it should be mandatory for everyone who goes out to work in customer service at one point in their life! Some friends of mine have owned bars and restaurants and what they have put up with is insane!
I like people, I like being busy, so I've worked in bars/ restaurants on and off for the past 17 years. People can be rude, condescending, run out without paying (women are the worst), you can be at work for 17 hours... it's nuts!!
But it doesn't compare one bit to teaching. When I'm done my bar job, I'm done! Even if it is 4 am! It doesn't even come close!
From when I started out to where I finished the quality of the security, not the mention the actual number of security personel, changed considerably.
There are some bars that don't even bother with doorstaff unless its part of their license. That profession has been severely hit in the financial crisis, as owners look to save money wherever they can. It seems nowadays it has gone from one extreme to the other.
Where you used to have a group of roided-up thugs who were often no better than the scum they were trying to keep out working the door, now you have a bunch of pansies fresh-out of college who figured that the SIA badge and "training" is an easy route to a £15 p/h job.
Give me a stoned child any day to deal with, rather than an inebriated fool swinging a glass bottle in my face.
Anyway, we digress.
I've no doubt that some pupils are a constant source of disruption. That is a fault with society in general. And, yes, I'd far sooner point the finger at the parents then I ever would the teachers.
I don't doubt that some classroom conditions especially in the inner-city delapidated areas are particular nasty.
But I don't really think that is comparable to a teacher who "teaches" a class of 20 Year 2 pupils in a sleepy village.
The vast majority of teachers don't teach in deprived areas.
Why do you put "teaches" in quotation marks. What is it exactly you think they do?
I think (the good ones) develop that child through understanding of the World and their surrounding environments.
But I would not call it teaching in terms of, say, a specific area or subject of academia.
To put it diplomatically.
I'm not undermining their job, as it is important. But it has considerably less stress than say a Year 9 grade (13-14 y.o.) teacher, would you not agree?
I completely disagree!
Not to say there aren't differences. but I have taught primary and also up to age 14. There is so much more you have to do and a lot more stress the younger you go. So many more things you have to do in terms of planning.
Right now, I teach a grade 4/5 combined class, so age 9/10. I have taught 5 and 6 year olds and I take my hat off to those who teach that age all the time. So much preparation, planning and so much to do.
I think it is much more stressful to teach the younger grades
Perhaps it is different in Canada.
Don't get me wrong, I had some very nice and pleasant women who were teachers when I very little, and they helped put me on the right path.
But as lovely as they were and as great with children as they, I wouldn't trust them with my dog now!
Don't get me wrong, I had some very nice and pleasant women who were teachers when I very little, and they helped put me on the right path.
But as lovely as they were and as great with children as they, I wouldn't trust them with my dog now!
Why not? What makes them so trustworthy?An honest question.
I went to primary school for a couple of years in England. I had fabulous teachers ( year 3/4) I still look back on what great teaching they did.
I'm surprised that you think primary teachers don't teach. Who teaches kids how to read, write, do Math?
I went to primary school for a couple of years in England. I had fabulous teachers ( year 3/4) I still look back on what great teaching they did.
I'm surprised that you think primary teachers don't teach. Who teaches kids how to read, write, do Math?
Johnny Vodka
Well-Known Member
Villages/small towns can be some of the worst places to teach and draw pupils from deprived areas (local to me are villages such as Cumnock and Auchinleck). Both my dad and my sister have taught at such a school. Certainly in Scotland the catchment area for a school can be large and take in pupils from all sorts of backgrounds and you really don't need much more than a handful of disruptive kids in a class (or even just lads trying to show off to the girls) to create a problem.
I know there are differences, but having attended school in both Canada an England, I don't think the teachers are too different.
I'm sorry I'm going back to the "they don't teach" thing, but I am!
With younger children you have to plan for a lot... they don't have the same attention span as older ones. There are very specific ways of assessing (formative vs summative) at all ages. So yes, you do have to teach and assess according to the instructional focus of your school or board. Even at age 5!
I'm sorry I'm going back to the "they don't teach" thing, but I am!
With younger children you have to plan for a lot... they don't have the same attention span as older ones. There are very specific ways of assessing (formative vs summative) at all ages. So yes, you do have to teach and assess according to the instructional focus of your school or board. Even at age 5!
Actually, from my own personal experience, it was always the class room assistant who taught reading. And my parents, of course. I'm sure each classroom and individual has a different experience.
I never said Primary school. I said "Year 2". Years R - 3, maybe even 4, no real work done in the literal sense. Learning, yes. But working, hmmmm?
I never said Primary school. I said "Year 2". Years R - 3, maybe even 4, no real work done in the literal sense. Learning, yes. But working, hmmmm?
When I was in primary school we had a handful of disruptive kids. The good teachers (yes, there were a few bad ones) soon realised, as did I even at such a young age, that the best policy was simply to sit them by themselves and ignore them.
You may think that harsh, or that you would be doing that child a disservice. But frankly, unless that child has learning problem, and in which case should be in a specialist school or class, then it is because of its up-bringing and their behaviour should not disrupt the rest of the class.
In secondard school - not my school, but a neighbouring school on the same site - some pupils brought knives into class and other threatened or physically assaulted their teachers.
Give me the primary school kids any day of the week.
You may think that harsh, or that you would be doing that child a disservice. But frankly, unless that child has learning problem, and in which case should be in a specialist school or class, then it is because of its up-bringing and their behaviour should not disrupt the rest of the class.
In secondard school - not my school, but a neighbouring school on the same site - some pupils brought knives into class and other threatened or physically assaulted their teachers.
Give me the primary school kids any day of the week.