Spotlight Fitness Club
- Thread starter diver
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Just stating it because you seem to be under the impression you are now eating a "healthier" diet and processed foods are bad. Just pointing out why you may be wrong.
Whey protein is one of the most highly processed foods out there. I'm willing to bet your PT takes them. Most PTs, not all, are very misled when it comes to nutrition. Not entirely their fault. There is a lot of misinformation.
The majority of your diet should come from whole and minimally processed foods, but processed foods in moderation will have no negative impact, with perhaps artificial trans fats being the exception. Not need to stick to "lean" foods. Fat is essential and good for you.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Reckon there is a fixation with steering people off processed foods because in a great many cases these comprise the majority of peoples' diets - and it shows. I try to have 2-3 meals a day of natural unprocessed / minimally processed foods (including meat and fish which both deliver essential dietary components) ... but also consume a lot of whey protein, casein etc. (in fact 1200-1800 calories a day of processed Sci-Mx supplement whether I'm gyming it or not). I haven't the appetite, time or discipline to substitute the latter effectively in such a controlled way and nutrient is also quickly absorbed after exercise to stave off weight loss in this form. Without it I'd be back to being unhealthily underweight in days.
Perhaps a key issue for many people is the cost of food nowadays. Ridiculously expensive to live on large quantities of good quality meat in UK - a decent sized fillet or rib-eye steak is topping £12 now and I can't eat sirloin, topside, poor quality rump etc.. Venison is about the same. Chicken twice a week is all I can stand - and without flavourings (which are inevitably processed) it's nigh on inedible too ! Luckily you can still get a decent mackerel in these parts for about £2. For now. If I went vegetarian and fully organic, reckon it would cost me about £600+ a month to stay adequately nourished and vaguely interested in food (not to mention a life in the kitchen and living with chronic alimentary disturbance and flatulence).
Unprocessed meat and dairy is full of hormones and goodness knows what other chemicals - and some of the worst contenders for contamination are greens which are not fully organic and have been treated with various chemicals to keep crop yields up to levels demanded. Honestly believe there's little in it sometimes between processed and unprocessed food when you take all that into account. But they make you feel better about yourself when you cook 'em rather than shoving in an instant meal so I guess that's something positive !
So ... it's all about getting a sensible balance. Btw ... I agree a bit of fat is essential - often wish I had a little more !!
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I can see why that sounds confusing - sorry should have explained. My gym was so busy that getting on the bench was a matter of luck / timing. So I ended up using lots of isolation / cable machines. So I ditched the gym and got a bench and a decent barbell / cast iron weights and three/four time a week I get together with a training partner and follow a compound exercise programme. I couple this with running between 18 - 25 miles a week. (which is a cut down from my previous typical mileage of 24 -35). I've found that ditching the gym was better in terms of convenience too, so it's easier to work out!
Arbitrary? It's a practical, easy to follow system. Nothing random about it at all. Yes it can be taken to extremes, but following the fundamental structure provides the desired results. Fruit, veg, meat, fish, seeds - easy to do and provides what I need energy wise. I'm 6ft 1" and exercise hard five days a week, work 60 hours a week, have 2 kids under five - if my diet was lacking anything I would feel it very quickly and either collapse or wither awayFirst line: "some US cohorts"
Do you know what cohort studies are? You cannot perform a controlled study with 450,000 people. There are numerous variables that could be the cause or a combination. Correlation =/= Causation.
Now, can you provide any Randomised Controlled Trials (RCTs) that show a direct link?
And, can you show how processed foods, when consumed in moderation, are somehow bad or unhealthy?
Don't mean to come across aggressive, I'm just blunt and to the point. There's heaps of misinformation surrounding nutrition and it's ridiculous how some people spew it. Also, posting degrees is a logical fallacy, called Appeal To Authority. Whether I have degrees, a degree, a masters, a Phd, is all irrelevant. It doesn't change anything about the information
It wasn't "Ugh!", it was "Ugh...." And it wasn't rude or obnoxious, you're just too sensitive. I'm blunt. I ask direct questions and state facts without sugar coating it or beating around the bush. I never made any rude comments.
Wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial doing compound exercises in the gym?
It appears you are the one who is rude, not me: "Sorry if that offends you, actually I'm not - you're probably as pleasant in real life as you appear on here."
Good job I don't really care what people say over the internet
And Paleo is just arbitrary restriction of food.
. Paleo is working well for me. (As for your dislike of my comments about your rudeness, if this has come as a surprise I'm sorry. If i was a Daily Mail reader I would be outraged by your rudeness. But I'm not - I'm just mildly alarmed.)Yeah I agree. You just have to apply a little common sense really
As long as you're getting adequate macro & micronutrients, nothing else really matters.
Arbitrary? It's a practical, easy to follow system. Nothing random about it at all. Yes it can be taken to extremes, but following the fundamental structure provides the desired results. Fruit, veg, meat, fish, seeds - easy to do and provides what I need energy wise. I'm 6ft 1" and exercise hard five days a week, work 60 hours a week, have 2 kids under five - if my diet was lacking anything I would feel it very quickly and either collapse or wither away
Arbitrary, as in unnecessary. Paleo restricts entire food groups like Dairy, Grains, Legumes.... All that is unnecessary. The foundation of the diet is sound, as I already said myself: "The majority of your diet should come from whole and minimally processed foods, but processed foods in moderation will have no negative impact"
But the restrictions of certain food groups is total nonsense.
Alan Aragon has written some pretty good stuff on this topic. Also, TED Talks has debunked Paleo also. You'll also find the vast majority of the Institute of Sports Nutrition are on the same page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8
http://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/N...rogram_Books/PTC_2013_Program_Book/Aragon.pdf
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=154123511&page=1
Arbitrary does not mean "unnecessary" - it means "at random" or "by chance". Nonsense? in what way? I've shed bodyfat and increased lean muscle more far effectively when observing the paleo diet. Those were my goals. I'm achieving them. You can "debunk it" as much as you want, it works.Yeah I agree. You just have to apply a little common sense really
As long as you're getting adequate macro & micronutrients, nothing else really matters.
Arbitrary, as in unnecessary. Paleo restricts entire food groups like Dairy, Grains, Legumes.... All that is unnecessary. The foundation of the diet is sound, as I already said myself: "The majority of your diet should come from whole and minimally processed foods, but processed foods in moderation will have no negative impact"
But the restrictions of certain food groups is total nonsense.
Alan Aragon has written some pretty good stuff on this topic. Also, TED Talks has debunked Paleo also. You'll also find the vast majority of the Institute of Sports Nutrition are on the same page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMOjVYgYaG8
http://www.nsca.com/uploadedFiles/N...rogram_Books/PTC_2013_Program_Book/Aragon.pdf
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=154123511&page=1
Arbitrary does not mean "random". You misinterpreted it when you googled it
"Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle"
" founded on or subject to personal whims, prejudices, etc.; capricious"
Nonsense, in the sense that it arbitrarily restricts foods. Restricting the foods will not lead to better body composition. It is unnecessary.
It works? It might and it might not. Total macronutrient composition will determine that, not what foods you eat. The reason you are achieving goals is because you are being consistent and meeting your macronutrient needs, not because you follow paleo.
Okay, science is wrong, you are right....
Arbitrary does not mean "random". You misinterpreted it when you googled it
"Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle"
" founded on or subject to personal whims, prejudices, etc.; capricious"
Nonsense, in the sense that it arbitrarily restricts foods. Restricting the foods will not lead to better body composition. It is unnecessary.
It works? It might and it might not. Total macronutrient composition will determine that, not what foods you eat. The reason you are achieving goals is because you are being consistent and meeting your macronutrient needs, not because you follow paleo.
Okay, science is wrong, you are right....
Too funny! That's the problem with internet smartarses - they always over reach and look foolish. I didn't google anything, I've got a decent command of the English language - but clearly you felt the need to just to check - and hilariously you've proved me right. Random does mean: ""Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle" - you're so obsessed with proving me wrong you are starting to look foolish. "It works? It might and it might not. Total macronutrient composition will determine that, not what foods you eat. The reason you are achieving goals is because you are being consistent and meeting your macronutrient needs, not because you follow paleo" I'm getting my "total macronutrient composition" through following Paleo = Paleo works. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. I'm just sharing my experience of what is working for me with my fellow posters - and fending off the desperate bleatings of a tiresome smartarse.
"It works? It might and it might not. Total macronutrient composition will determine that, not what foods you eat. The reason you are achieving goals is because you are being consistent and meeting your macronutrient needs, not because you follow paleo" I'm getting my "total macronutrient composition" through following Paleo = Paleo works. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. I'm just sharing my experience of what is working for me with my fellow posters - and fending off the desperate bleatings of a tiresome smartarse.
Again. You misinterpret the meaning of the word arbitrary.
Total Macronutrient Composition with Paleo = Same Results as: Total Macronutrient Composition without Paleo. Therefore, you are arbitrarily restricting food choices. Where did I ever say Paleo doesn't work? I said it may or may not, depending on total macro intake.
You won't be able to "fend" me off with this stuff. It is my area of interest, I research nutrition very regularly. Look at the evidence. Your word is nothing. It's n=1. Anecdote.
WeLuvIbiza
Active Member
It's a shame this thread has turned into the Germaine show. A casual observer is unlikely to share their experiences know they are going to be jumped on by a poster who believes their way is the only way.
You need to read my posts more thoroughly. Where did I say there was only one way? Now you're just lying. I simply pointed out that restricting food is unnecessary, therefore imply there is less strict ways to diet and achieve results, not "one way".
I believe you were the one saying processed food is bad, therefore eliminating foods and restricting diets. I pointed out again, it's unnecessary.
My word is nothing?
It's anecdotal? From a scientific perspective, I suppose it is. But like all sane people, I don't eat or work out in a lab controlled environment, so I use my judgement and monitor results in my own way and I'm happy to share what works for me. That's what we're discussing on here before you stormed the discussion with your high brow / low charisma approach. But regardless of whether or not it is your area of interest, your views are an opinion and that you are not representing "SCIENCE" - to claim you are proves your arrogance outweighs your academic merit. Science of whatever stripes is not a set of unmovable absolutes. You seem to think you are "Science" and everyone else's opinions are bull**** and worthless because they are not backed up by a lab report. Right or wrong, informed or not - it must feel bitter sweet that despite having all of this self professed knowledge, no one will ever benefit from it / listen to it because your manner and personality switches people off from whatever you have to say? (if you need to check the credibility of my theory- scientifically - just look at results stimulated by your previous posts?) Plus I bet you're a right pie eater too.
kimajy
Well-Known Member
Apologies if I've ****ed this thread up by getting into one with Germaine. Couldn't help myself. Should know better..
Can we get back on track?
So ... if you were a 'hardgainer', did plenty of exercise, weren't pre-disposed to middle-aged fat gain and decided to go "Paleo", how would you eat enough calories (and calcium) to get by healthily without losing weight ? Perhaps if you come at the nutrition question from an initial standpoint of being overweight or disposed to get fat easily (as so many Westerners seem to be) then this is a route to fat loss. However, for a normal to underweight person I am not yet convinced of its merits.
It does strike me that if you cut out rice, oats, potatoes (as some Paleo bods suggest), bread etc. you are going to really struggle to get enough calories a day down your throat ... and will most likely start wasting away. So what when those excess fat stores you've been trying to get rid of are gone ? Do you stop ? My very basic logic simply says perhaps this is appropriate for some people but almost certainly not for all. I would likely look completely skeletal after a few weeks on a Paleo diet which mimics quantities of food our predecessors are likely to have had readily available to them to consume. I'm still really struggling to see how that can be healthy.
If we're using ready availability of food to up the quantities eaten compared to our ancestors but simply restricting the food set then I can see that potentially causing issues with how we are physically adapted to cope too. It does seem the fundamental tenet of the Paleo philosophy is that humans cannot have evolved to be physiologically adapted to a diet other than a Paleo one and blaming disease on that. I'd blame it more on too many pork pies and beer, along with exercise shifting to the TV room from the forest myself ! Most food we buy nowadays is artificially raised or tampered with to increase yield from farmed fish to meat to greens. I'm just waiting for the scandal exposing how much tampering, mis-labelling and misleading there is with even "organic" produce. Not to mention dumped contaminants getting into the food chain of even wild line-caught fish for example. The additives, hormones, chemicals etc. which one way or another enter our systems whatever we eat and whether processed or not are almost certainly contributing significantly to the diseases we suffer. It's very hard to go along with the notion that the products of agriculture are the real worry in our diets, being completely objective about it.
Sugar (drinks & puds), salt (crisps etc.), significant amounts of alcohol and cheap trans-fats in fast food are probably between them responsible for most of the obesity and health problems in both younger and older people. Food additives and flavourings not helping either. Would cutting out this lot (and ready meals) not likely go a long way towards getting a sensible balanced diet, without going to extremes ? A hunter-gatherer diet likely suited a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. But our lifestyles have changed radically since then and it seems logical to me to think that it's likely our appropriate diet is likely to change too. What no-one agrees on is to what.
diver
Well-Known Member
Apologies if I've ****ed this thread up by getting into one with Germaine. Couldn't help myself. Should know better.
Can we get back on track?
I think that I have some responsibility for this, I should have controlled my own thread a bit more.
diver
Well-Known Member
I have started to eat clean, except for one meal a week which I reserve for Saturday evening (if im off work). Even then, my appetite is not what it used to be. I drink alcohol (not to excess) on this night. I am three weeks in.
Its a diet that I have followed before, i cant find the link at the mo but here is one of the days as an example -
[h=2]Breakfast[/h]40g organic porridge oats with coconut/rice milk and small amount organichoney dusted with cinnamon or all spice
Protein shake
[h=2]Morning snack[/h]Handful of raspberries
Mixed unsalted nuts (no peanuts)
[h=2]Post-workout lunch[/h]Lean grilled turkey breast
Lightly steamed mixed veg
40g brown basmati rice
[h=2]Snack[/h]1 fresh grapefruit
Protein shake
[h=2]Dinner[/h]Large lean grilled steak
Lightly steamed mixed veg including kale
I have more energy, no ups and downs with insulin levels. Its hard preparation and which I think is the reason why people choose convenience foods. I have never been a fan of ready meals. The most processed we go in our house is jars of sauces, normally tomato based. The other thing is that everyone is interested in what you have to eat, family and work colleagues alike. After a while they just stop asking you "why?" and accept it, just like someone who is tee total.
I did the same diet last year and had a "nearly six pack" - This is my ultimate goal, as despite being a fat b*&^£ard in the 00's, I have actually lost a lot of weight, maybe a 1/5 of my body weight and built muscle at the same time.
However, I find it very hard to build muscle, im shagged out all the time due to working shifts and have two young children to take care of. I'd love to spend all day at the gym but I have to limit myself.
(waffling now)