Morbyd
Moderator
But is it cause or effect?Yes Coke does make people talk at you not with you, or not remember ever meeting or speaking to you at allbut hasnt affected the STYLE of music - but K has i think, producing the minimal scene
After overloading on funky house early part of this decade, my tastes were moving in the direction of minimal before I even knew what K was...
Maybe K use took off because it goes well with minimal?
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West London Shadow
Active Member
Scouse house was influenced by the increasing use of lighter fluid & Tip-ex.
K has been about since the 80's in gay clubs. imo it is the cause of the minimal scene when it crossed over to the more "mainstream" clubs.
In London the cost factor has a big effect too as k is the cheapest of them all and the younger people in clubs take it because of that.
djcadenza
Active Member
Did Palumbo not establish the MOS?
I appreciate the anti mail thing -at the bouncers being black and white note, but i'm not getting where the anger here is directed (apart from naked age!).
Story is man owns club, people took drugs. This was controlled by criminals. The owner did not like it and called the police. It still happens but he does not go anymore.
Tony Wilson at the Hac, James Barton at Cream - all had issues with the doormen running the trade that led to massive police raids in both cases. Wilson in particular was vocal about the problems of gangs in Manchester.
So...ignoring that it's the mail - whats the problem?
i first set foot in the Hac in 84' and by 86' i was working there,Sankey soaps in 90'etc...and in my years of working in clubs,ive learned that whilst a potentially dodgy situation remains managable,..club owners turn a blind eye... so long as the doortake is up,and the bars are busy..but when the situation is no longer in their control,they plead innocence!
madwhitegiant
New Member
Too much Dickie Davis just makes my hickory small(er).
Naah - I'd say the music comes first.
I can't see that people would start taking a drug because it goes with a particular style of music (except crystal for chainsaw gabber but that's another matter I guess!
Well you have to admit that Minimal and K took off at the same time in London.
So then you where left with $hite music and zombies dancing to it
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
Naah - I'd say the music comes first.
I can't see that people would start taking a drug because it goes with a particular style of music (except crystal for chainsaw gabber but that's another matter I guess!
I believe it's in the Tower Hamlets theology syllabus to cover the Chicken vs Egg conundrum.
I think it's correct that the growth in popularity of K has definitely played a part in the rise of Minimal and Dubstep.
I don't buy all these zombie comments though, in clubs people use K in the same way they would sniff, although obviously adjusting the line size accordingly.
In small quantities it's a perfectly social drug. Although at most raves I've been to recently there's been one twat who's clearly overdone it stumbling around unable to talk and bumping into people, I really haven't found that people often allow K to transform themselves into mindless zombies in clubs.
Either way it's no worse than the people who take so many pills they 'zone out' and completely lose touch with the fact they are in a club dancing.
As for going it sober vs using E or whatever, in my experience the people who only enjoy listening to a dance genre whilst ****ed on drugs are those that listen to completely different music normally, such as cheese, indie, metal etc.
Most people who truly like dance music can enjoy it drunk, sober or pilled up. In my main group of friends a couple of guys quit all drugs bar weed after Ibiza. It's strange how when you go out with them they are so eager to highlight they are just drinking, how they try and encourage others to just drink and how it becomes awkward when they realise everyone else is intent on getting pilled up. It's also quite amusing how they often end up in worse states than those who are taking drugs!
I don't know it's just kind of wierd how there is almost competition and animosity between the drug users and drinkers. I hate how PLUR this sounds but all that should matter is that you have a love for the music, not what substances you choose to use whilst enjoying the music, I guess it's those that get totally gurned up and over do it which ruin it.. As I can see how that would annoy those who only drink (and those who only use small amounts for that matter). At the same time though the same applies to those drinking, as those who get totally ****faced or lary are just as much of an irritant..
I don't buy all these zombie comments though, in clubs people use K in the same way they would sniff, although obviously adjusting the line size accordingly.
In small quantities it's a perfectly social drug. Although at most raves I've been to recently there's been one twat who's clearly overdone it stumbling around unable to talk and bumping into people, I really haven't found that people often allow K to transform themselves into mindless zombies in clubs.
Either way it's no worse than the people who take so many pills they 'zone out' and completely lose touch with the fact they are in a club dancing.
As for going it sober vs using E or whatever, in my experience the people who only enjoy listening to a dance genre whilst ****ed on drugs are those that listen to completely different music normally, such as cheese, indie, metal etc.
Most people who truly like dance music can enjoy it drunk, sober or pilled up. In my main group of friends a couple of guys quit all drugs bar weed after Ibiza. It's strange how when you go out with them they are so eager to highlight they are just drinking, how they try and encourage others to just drink and how it becomes awkward when they realise everyone else is intent on getting pilled up. It's also quite amusing how they often end up in worse states than those who are taking drugs!
I don't know it's just kind of wierd how there is almost competition and animosity between the drug users and drinkers. I hate how PLUR this sounds but all that should matter is that you have a love for the music, not what substances you choose to use whilst enjoying the music, I guess it's those that get totally gurned up and over do it which ruin it.. As I can see how that would annoy those who only drink (and those who only use small amounts for that matter). At the same time though the same applies to those drinking, as those who get totally ****faced or lary are just as much of an irritant..
Beckiboo
Active Member
I just dont agree with you on that. Maybe if you take K you see it from a different point of perspective, but from someone who doesn't, and often watches friends doing it in clubs/after clubs, it really does affect the atmosphere! Quite often I've got annoyed and left arterpartys because everyone is just in K-holes monging out and it's soooooo boring! Probably great fun for everyone in the K-hole
but not for people trying to socialise with them.I do get the appeal with K and understand why people do it. But to call it a sociable drug is totally wrong IMO.
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
Amen to that, brother!
I just dont agree with you on that. Maybe if you take K you see it from a different point of perspective, but from someone who doesn't, and often watches friends doing it in clubs/after clubs, it really does affect the atmosphere! Quite often I've got annoyed and left arterpartys because everyone is just in K-holes monging out and it's soooooo boring! Probably great fun for everyone in the K-hole
I do get the appeal with K and understand why people do it. But to call it a sociable drug is totally wrong IMO.
I completely understand where you're coming from, clearly K-holing is not social, and taking a coke sized line of K would not be social. At afterparties especially, as you say, people take K to K hole and for those not K holing it's probably not much fun effectively chilling with corpses.
However, in my experience that is not what is done in clubs. People take small bumps of K in clubs for effects not dissimilar to that of alcohol. In that respect it can be a social drug, even though it certainly isn't always.
E is the only drug that really brings people together in my experience.
It changed a generation - even getting footie thugs from opposing teams to hug each other and mix with gays. (unheard of in the 80s)
People also dropped designer labels and crossed class divides for the first time in about a decade.
...AND it was proven to be great for marriage guidance counseling.
However - dancing in its purest form is a very shamanic act and shouldn't really require drugs at all. It's as old as time.
Leo (the guy that runs my course) is a huge advocate of e but thinks alcohol is a destructive substance which reinforces the ego and separates us from one another. I'm inclined to agree with him tbh.
I think we're better off without any of it to be honest.
Given the option of spending time on a shamanic course or hanging out at the pseudo 'spiritual' stone circle at Glastonbury during sunrise I know which I'd choose!
It changed a generation - even getting footie thugs from opposing teams to hug each other and mix with gays.
(unheard of in the 80s)People also dropped designer labels and crossed class divides for the first time in about a decade.
...AND it was proven to be great for marriage guidance counseling.
However - dancing in its purest form is a very shamanic act and shouldn't really require drugs at all. It's as old as time.
Leo (the guy that runs my course) is a huge advocate of e but thinks alcohol is a destructive substance which reinforces the ego and separates us from one another. I'm inclined to agree with him tbh.
I think we're better off without any of it to be honest.
Given the option of spending time on a shamanic course or hanging out at the pseudo 'spiritual'
stone circle at Glastonbury during sunrise I know which I'd choose!
Beckiboo
Active Member
The most social part about it is everyone hovering round the lucky bag-owner for a bump!
If everyone done one of two bumps a night it probably would be social, but from my experience people tend to hoover up a lot more than that in a night, gradually getting more wasted as the night goes on!
I remember not so long ago before K being the norm when afterpartys would often be better than the club night itself, more people dancing etc. Now with the way things are you do generally find a lot of K'd out zombies... I'm not saying that's necessarily bad for the people doing it, everyone must enjoy it otherwise it wouldn't be so popular.
It's crazy how popular it is now though. I know gorgeous young things from Essex aged about 19-20 who wouldn't look out of place on Footballer's Wives who are doing it!
Phil_Dicko
Active Member
Not according to Terrence McKenna... he argued that the shamanism of the "pre-historic" world was stoked by psychedelic plants, until the African basin was scotched of its vegetation (including its mushrooms) and humans discovered mead through food preservation techniques like using honey.
But I'm glad someone has raised the issue of shamanism. Some will definitely see it as hippy nonsense but I firmly believe that clubbing is a throwback to our pre-historic shamanic days. And mind-altering substances (excluding alcohol) have always had a role to play. It's all about communalism and stripping of the ego.
McKenna said it himself:
Something in that quote really strikes an inner chord with me, whether his vision has been realised yet or not.
It's crazy how popular it is now though. I know gorgeous young things from Essex aged about 19-20 who wouldn't look out of place on Footballer's Wives who are doing it!
Haha I'm with you on that, in my first year at uni just passed it's been bizarre how many who just really don't fit the profile of what you would expect K users to be like, have become K fiends.
I also remember at a rave in April this fit well spoken blonde girl called Cordelia desperately searching out K and proclaming herself a 'Keta-fiend'. From visiting Leeds uni as well it seems to have become the bohemian drug of choice for the 'rah's' which I guess isn't that surprising when you're dealing with idiots like these!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lThLPUmfLNs&feature=PlayList&p=6E37DA8E329BD5BA&index=2
hauskitten
No longer active
What I wanna know is how can it make you be in 2 rooms at once??