London Bombers & Religion

[Buckley]

I keep trying to find a flaw in my logic because I'm aware that I'm writing off the strong beliefs of millions of people but doesn't anyone else think that what happened last Thurdsay was the end result, not of extremist Islam, but of religion per se? That in a world we allow, through structured institutionalised teaching from childhood, the dissemination of 'facts' or 'truths' which have absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever, impressionable minds can be taught the most abhorrent 'truths'?

 

[djchewie]

I keep trying to find a flaw in my logic because I'm aware that I'm writing the strong beliefs of millions of people but doesn't anyone else think that what happened last Thurdsay was the end result, not of extremist Islam, but of religion per se? That in a world we allow, through structured institutionalised teaching from childhood, the dissemination of 'facts' or 'truths' which have absolutely no scientific proof whatsoever, impressionable minds can be taught the most abhorrent 'truths'?

think last thurs was a result of the use of Islam to brainwash these men into doing something that no religion would tell you to do.

I cant get to grips with the notion that if you do the bidding of God that you will be rewarded in Paradise with 72 virgins to attend to your every need.

i hope theyre burning in hell with red hot pokers shoved up their arses.

 

[mikkak]

I think that the worst ""religion"" in world is fanatism. Is fanatism not religion what is killing people.

 

[Buckley]

I think that the worst ""religion"" in world is fanatism. Is fanatism not religion what is killing people.

But fanatism starts with the teaching of 'absolute truths' that have no grounding whatsoever in provable fact. Surely, if we work on logic alone, discounting any religious influence we soaked up since childhood, if we didn't teach as fact things that are completely unproven, fanatics couldn't do the same?

 

[mikkak]

I think that the worst ""religion"" in world is fanatism. Is fanatism not religion what is killing people.

But fanatism starts with the teaching of 'absolute truths' that have no grounding whatsoever in provable fact. Surely, if we work on logic alone, discounting any religious influence we soaked up since childhood, if we didn't teach as fact things that are completely unproven, fanatics couldn't do the same?

I see you point and I understand what you saying, but I also know that a lot of people is willing to kill for ideas that nothing has to do with religion or not directly, example the people who thinks in the white supremacy and kills. So I think that it is true what you say of absolute truths but this you can also say from other ideas, like people that thinks that is really truth all this rubbish of white supremacy.
I am not really religious I am not even christen, but Neally everybody in Spain it is and I think that is just a question of respect and tolerance.

I do not know if I make myself understandable. When it is up to talk about political, religion, etc it is really very dificult for me to explain myself or get to the point in english.

 

[Buckley]

I think that the worst ""religion"" in world is fanatism. Is fanatism not religion what is killing people.

But fanatism starts with the teaching of 'absolute truths' that have no grounding whatsoever in provable fact. Surely, if we work on logic alone, discounting any religious influence we soaked up since childhood, if we didn't teach as fact things that are completely unproven, fanatics couldn't do the same?

I see you point and I understand what you saying, but I also know that a lot of people is willing to kill for ideas that nothing has to do with religion or not directly, example the people who thinks in the white supremacy and kills. So I think that it is true what you say of absolute truths but this you can also say from other ideas, like people that thinks that is really truth all this rubbish of white supremacy.
I am not really religious I am not even christen, but Neally everybody in Spain it is and I think that is just a question of respect and tolerance.

I do not know if I make myself understandable.

Yup, your written English is near perfect 8)

I, as I'm sure you've worked out, am not at all religious.

I respect anyone's right to believe what they like but I just don't think they should be allowed to teach it, particularly to children, as fact, unless they can prove it is true.

 

[djchewie]

im not religious either, but people need faith. or something to believe in when things are down.

Mr B. are you saying that we should ban Santa and the easter bunny too?

 

[Buckley]

Mr B. are you saying that we should ban Santa and the easter bunny too?

If people start killing in their name, then yes.

Wars don't start over the Easter Bunny. People aren't indoctrinated every day of their lives, almost from birth, to believe in Santa to point where, without any real evidence, they continue to believe in him and teach their offspring to do so.

 

[Mark Sun]

For every attrocity committed in the name of God, there are millions more kindnesses done in the same name. Spirituality, and conscience are what, to use an old cliche, is what separates us from the animals...

I guess it's a question of whether this is organised into institutionalised religion is you point Buckles... but I think that teaching a child that it will be rewarded for kindnesses - the foundation of all major religions - is no bad thing. I think that at our primal core, humans are selfish creatures. Only society, with it's legends, conventions and theology, makes us look out for strangers - fundamental for a working community, especially one as large as London, New York ....or Bagdad.

So... I agree with the opinions stated above - that it is fanaticism, not religion, that created these monsters.

 

[Mark Sun]

As an addendum to that, however, I think everyone should have a right to make up their own minds - a factor missing in the philosophies of the more dangerous religious groups.

 

[mikkak]

I think that the worst ""religion"" in world is fanatism. Is fanatism not religion what is killing people.

But fanatism starts with the teaching of 'absolute truths' that have no grounding whatsoever in provable fact. Surely, if we work on logic alone, discounting any religious influence we soaked up since childhood, if we didn't teach as fact things that are completely unproven, fanatics couldn't do the same?

I see you point and I understand what you saying, but I also know that a lot of people is willing to kill for ideas that nothing has to do with religion or not directly, example the people who thinks in the white supremacy and kills. So I think that it is true what you say of absolute truths but this you can also say from other ideas, like people that thinks that is really truth all this rubbish of white supremacy.
I am not really religious I am not even christen, but Neally everybody in Spain it is and I think that is just a question of respect and tolerance.

I do not know if I make myself understandable.

Yup, your written English is near perfect 8)

I, as I'm sure you've worked out, am not at all religious.

I respect anyone's right to believe what they like but I just don't think they should be allowed to teach it, particularly to children, as fact, unless they can prove it is true.

Well I think that in public school ( dependant of the State) religioun shouldn't be teached to everyone just to the ones that want to learn it, because there is the wrigth to have and learn about you own religioun.
You could say, well I won't give any religioun education to my children and when they are grownup they can choose if they want to believe and practice a religioun, but if you are a religious and you believe all about it you want your children to have it, because you want the better for you people. People allways think that what they believe is the best.
My parents didn't kristen me with the idea that I would choose when I was grown up but when I have been grown up I do not feel the necesity of embrasing any religion.

 

[Robder]

I think it's a very dodgy subject to touch on really...I get really cross when people equate the bombers with muslims when they're just nutters.
Are Islamic funamentalists really following the Koran???
Does the Koran say this sort of behaviour is justifiable?


I think it's really sad that this is already causing loads of racial tension...apparently there have been attacks on mosques up norf and the community safety forum (& racial harrassment forum) in Brighton I used to work for have been really busy since last Thursday.

What people need to realise is that by spreading even more hatred, they are adding to the cause of the problem.

 

[djchewie]

If people start killing in their name, then yes.

Wars don't start over the Easter Bunny. People aren't indoctrinated every day of their lives, almost from birth, to believe in Santa to point where, without any real evidence, they continue to believe in him and teach their offspring to do so.

bottom line is.

its WRONG to kill/harm any human whatever background/religion/country /football team you are from and believe in.

there are idiots out there who unfortunately have that screw loose and will do almost anything for their cause.

its natures way to survive. funked up as it is, if you really believe in doing something in which you believe in, in order to maintain that belief, you will do it.

in respect of these kind of terrorists, if God appeared floating down from the clouds and said, "STOP your ways because its not my way" do you think they would?

 

[silvia]

In my opinion it's a mix of religious fanatism and consequences of "occidental" countries external politics.

BTW, yesterday 25 kids were killed in Iraq

 

[mambobirdette]

The religion thing is one thing that i really dont understand and i never will. Theres some pretty f***ed up people in the world that think its okay if yhey can go around killing people because their religion allows them to do it. Why people flight over religion too also baffles me, i'll never understand it

One thing i do know is the anger that it gives me

 

[MARKB]

I agree with Mr Sun.

It would be similar logic in blaming all sport for Football Hooligans.

Football hooligans find a purpose in violence in the name of sport usually due to either a huge lacking in esteem/ sense of identity or by simplky being a bit of a psycho.

Many millions of people put the ancient teachings of their many religions into context of their everyday lives and find strength and solace in their faith.

 

[djchewie]

Does the Koran say this sort of behaviour is justifiable?

from watching various news progs and "experts" on the subject its a bit of a grey area as the passage these animals use, is a bit foggy and depends on "interpretation".

 

[Robder]

BTW, yesterday 25 kids were killed in Iraq

Thanks Sil - that's a really good point! Glad you raised it.

The war on Iraq was inexcusable...an outright attempt to kill thousands of innocent people.

How are our world leaders any different to these terrorists?

...Granted, the war did generate some of the biggest protests of all time but I still got the feeling that people were thinking out of sight, out of mind & if it's not happening within my country or culture then I can turn a blind eye.

 

[Robder]

from watching various news progs and "experts" on the subject its a bit of a grey area as the passage these animals use, is a bit foggy and depends on "interpretation".

Hmmmm - do you know where I can find out about it?

 

[mikkak]

BTW, yesterday 25 kids were killed in Iraq

Thanks Sil - that's a really good point! Glad you raised it.

The war on Iraq was inexcusable...an outright attempt to kill thousands of innocent people.

How are our world leaders any different to these terrorists?

...Granted, the war did generate some of the biggest protests of all time but I still got the feeling that people were thinking out of sight, out of mind & if it's not happening within my country or culture then I can turn a blind eye.

Yess, I also think is a good point.
I also think that fanatism is the problem not religion.