Beckiboo
Active Member
And?
If you read my post again, I've said these people are a burden on all tax-paying people in society, lower / working class too.
karen mathews & michael donovan found GUILTY!!
- Thread starter djcadenza
- Start date
And?
If you read my post again, I've said these people are a burden on all tax-paying people in society, lower / working class too.My parents bought our home using the right to buy scheme, i would hardly say my folks have ever voted for anyone let alone the tories! - just took the opportunity to buy so we did.
Oh look, the country's on the verge of bankruptcy again... i could harp on about the 70's, 25% inflation and all that, but that was another era.
time to stop debating and doing something about it then. or shall we just sweep it under the carpet, and pretend they dont exist.
the problem with this discussion is you get lumped in with the Daily Mail if you object to the abuse of the welfare state. My difference with the Daily Mail is that they exploit these cases as an excuse to turn the clock back to some mythical age where Hilda Ogden waved at smiling policemen passing by on bicycles but ultimately they're selfish capitalists who would happily leave the proles below deck whilst their mates got the lifeboats. My argument is actually a defence of the decent working class who should not have to endure the misery that the sink families cause their communities. Of course, it might be ethically dodgy to regulate how many children people have - but there has to be way of trying to persuade people not to have kids they are never going to care for - I don't know how you can enforce this but tackling the benefits structure has to be a start
there's plenty of them from the upper classes too! - they're called the Royal Family!
Tis easy - limit to 2/3 and this is the MAXIMUM you will get. at the moments its a free-for-all.
And?
So at what stage in my life should I be castrated?
time to stop debating and doing something about it then. or shall we just sweep it under the carpet, and pretend they dont exist.
I agree, but not sure what you mean about pretending they don't exist? I certainly don't.
I just think this whole pigeonholing of large tracts of society is the cause of the problem and the problem why it will continue.
I think the point here is that people from problem families need to be monitored and in certain cases I would strongly support restricting that family's ability to procreate.
of course, it's a legal and ethical minefield - but there are unloved, fcked up children being brought into our society every day and what is the good of that??
Beckiboo
Active Member
Whenever you decide to not work and claim benefits, despite being completely healthy, lie on your couch smoking fags, shovelling takeaways into your mouth and popping out kids every year.... so maybe... 15yrs old?
I think you are getting on a bit of a moral high horse here.... pretty much everyone on this board I'd imagine has working class roots. There's not many people who have parents / grandparents who have been comfortable all their lives, especially after the war, more or less everyone was skint. The difference is some people decided to work hard and fight their way out of it, and earn their own money, and some decided to sponge.
point 1. - no matter how much distaste of the Tories you have, have a gander @
THIS
everytime a Govt minister is asked, "Do you think parts of Britain are broken", the answer is always no, there is no problem.
point 2. - i think what everyone is describing is the underclass. All every hardworking person in this country wants is for everyone to pull together and contribute. but unfortunately there are those in society who will never want to work, and by simply chucking money at em isnt the answer. they need help, and incentives to get off their arses, work and claim back some self esteem into their lives.
Whenever you decide to not work and claim benefits, despite being completely healthy, lie on your couch smoking fags, shovelling takeaways into your mouth and popping out kids every year.... so maybe... 15yrs old?
I think you are getting on a bit of a moral high horse here.... pretty much everyone on this board I'd imagine has working class roots. There's not many people who have parents / grandparents who have been comfortable all their lives, especially after the war, more or less everyone was skint. The difference is some people decided to work hard and fight their way out of it, and earn their own money, and some decided to sponge.
Excuse me? Moral Highground? It's you who wants to castrate the underclass.
I'm simply qualifying your statements.
There are many people who are in circumstances because of choices or the lack of choices their parents made/had.
Look at how this thread has gone:
"Karen Matthews is a wrong 'un!"
Then straight onto
"Let's stop these people having kids"
What people? Poor uneducated people? People who live in Council houses? People on benefits?
In case they turn out to be like Karen Matthews?
It's ridiculous, ugly, mob mentality
If a minister is asked such a loaded question - how do you expect them to respond? It will just be turned into political capital and a media frenzy.
why is that such a loaded question?
Christ, i'd expect them to at least say, we actually we have strong evidence that this isnt the case *insert shining example* - the mere fact is, after the Blair years of Spin Spin Spin, i personally take anything the present govt says with a pinch of salt, because with my own eyes, there are plenty of Karen Matthews out there who will do anything to do nothing.
Beckiboo
Active Member
Excuse me? Moral Highground? It's you who wants to castrate the underclass.
I'm simply qualifying your statements.
There are many people who are in circumstances because of choices or the lack of choices their parents made/had.
Look at how this thread has gone:
"Karen Matthews is a wrong 'un!"
Then straight onto
"Let's stop these people having kids"
What people? Poor uneducated people? People who live in Council houses? People on benefits?
In case they turn out to be like Karen Matthews?
It's ridiculous, ugly, mob mentality
I haven't said anything about castrating
I've just said some people should not be given the choice to have children.Some people are low life scumbags, and you cannot deny that there are people out there like that. There are a hell of a lot of people like Karen Matthews out there, bone idle, lazy people who contribute nothing to society and are are just leeches on the tax paying citizens IMO.
So yes, I do think they should be banned from having kids!
You make your own choices in life, everyone gets a free education in Britain, you can't blame your own shortcomings on anyone else.
If you look at people like Karen Matthews and the many thousands like her in this country (eg Tracey Connolly) then an extreme view would be that sterilisation would be a good thing and I share that view, because why the hell should they be given the opportunity again? would you release a peadophile or sex offender into a house next to a school (well if you were Cambridge Education Comittee you would employ one as a primary school caretaker) bad example maybe...but I think my point is clear. I just find the idea that parents or even people can harm children utterly abhorrent.....a view that has greatly intensified since becoming a father...and those like me will agree and those not there yet....you will soon enough!!!
What people? Poor uneducated people? People who live in Council houses? People on benefits?
people who hurt their own kids!!
What people? Poor uneducated people? People who live in Council houses? People on benefits?
people who hurt their own kids!!
I haven't said anything about castrating
Some people are low life scumbags, and you cannot deny that there are people out there like that. There are a hell of a lot of people like Karen Matthews out there, bone idle, lazy people who contribute nothing to society and are are just leeches on the tax paying citizens IMO.
So yes, I do think they should be banned from having kids!
You make your own choices in life, everyone gets a free education in Britain, you can't blame your own shortcomings on anyone else.[/quote]
But you can't ban people from having kids. What do you do? Get them to fill in a form? You agreed with Olly who was up for castrations and now you're trying to wriggle out of it.
What about the likes of Shannon Matthews and Baby P? Are you saying they have had the same sort of start in life as you? You're saying that it's their fault if they end up with a poor education?
People should be thinking more "there but for the grace of god go I" rather than "it's their fault they end up like that".
It's far too complex an issue to say, "well they get a free education like everyone else, it's obviously their choice".
You're spot on that there are many lazy selfish people out there who choose not to contribute despite being able. I'm just saying that we've got to be careful as a society not to take the easy point of view which is "they are all the same".
But that is not what's being said is it?
Beckiboo
Active Member
I haven't said anything about castrating
Some people are low life scumbags, and you cannot deny that there are people out there like that. There are a hell of a lot of people like Karen Matthews out there, bone idle, lazy people who contribute nothing to society and are are just leeches on the tax paying citizens IMO.
So yes, I do think they should be banned from having kids!
You make your own choices in life, everyone gets a free education in Britain, you can't blame your own shortcomings on anyone else.[/quote]
But you can't ban people from having kids. What do you do? Get them to fill in a form? You agreed with Olly who was up for castrations and now you're trying to wriggle out of it.
What about the likes of Shannon Matthews and Baby P? Are you saying they have had the same sort of start in life as you? You're saying that it's their fault if they end up with a poor education?
People should be thinking more "there but for the grace of god go I" rather than "it's their fault they end up like that".
It's far too complex an issue to say, "well they get a free education like everyone else, it's obviously their choice".
You're spot on that there are many lazy selfish people out there who choose not to contribute despite being able. I'm just saying that we've got to be careful as a society not to take the easy point of view which is "they are all the same".
This has got waaayyyy too intense and I really can't be bothered to get into a heated debate about it. There's loads of people who have tough childhoods and make something of themselves. I'd hope that Shannon would see her mum's failings and make sure she doesn't end up like that.
I still stand by what I say, scumbags like Karen Matthews et al... castrate/neuter/chop off bits... whatever!