Moha
Well-Known Member
Why did you or your ancestors emigrate to the us? For philosophical purposes?
Immigrants are leaving their home countries for better lifes.
Your post is racist and insulting.
Could you post without mentionning "guns" for once?
Heartbreaking read
- Thread starter Buckley
- Start date
Why did you or your ancestors emigrate to the us? For philosophical purposes?
Immigrants are leaving their home countries for better lifes.
Your post is racist and insulting.
Could you post without mentionning "guns" for once?
and further, immigrants seeking better lives are usually prepared to work extremely hard at making their new life a success.
if anything, nations from the sub-continent have some of the hardest working people in the world.
so go figure LB!
i knew that, even more bizarre to have actually put it the way he did.......
agentundercover
Active Member
Not trying to bandwagon jump here, but your first sentence is very important and concise. Migration across cities, countries and continents is and has been occuring since time inifinite - however we have created such a polarisation between rich and poor in the present day that we (you) want to pull the draw bridge up to preserve our (your) way of life.
agentundercover
Active Member
sh1t - moha - not 'you' - I meant LB!
Moha
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised, you're defending a neo-con speech, as Digger mentionned it.
You don't have to go to pakistan or afghanistan to have such hate views.
Hmnnn.. what is it that upsets people the most? Is it the hotel vs home comment? the guns?
I have a few friends that have moved to Canada, but still think of the country they were born in as their home.. I don't see anything wrong with moving to a new place for economic or safety reasons, but still holding strong cultural ties to where you were born. I think its sad when people move to a new country and forget about where they came from.
I have a few friends that have moved to Canada, but still think of the country they were born in as their home.. I don't see anything wrong with moving to a new place for economic or safety reasons, but still holding strong cultural ties to where you were born. I think its sad when people move to a new country and forget about where they came from.
Morbyd
Moderator
When exactly did I do that?
I just pointed out that certain life experiences have given LB a certain view. I never said it's my view.
Moha
Well-Known Member
It's not the first time you stood by your countryman.
Finding excuses to such comments and views tend to banalise them.
Morbyd
Moderator
That's absolutely insipid. It has absolutely zero to do with what country he's from. Who's being "banal" here?
I don't know anything about your background but I do know a small bit about LB and therefore can guess how his life experiences might have influenced his views on these issues.
Even if I don't necessarily agree with his points, I have to respect them to a certain degree because they are informed. A similar situation would be if I offered some criticisms of the Black community in America. There's a lot to criticize, in my view, but I'd challenge your standing to label those criticisms "racist and insulting".
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LagunaBeachCA
New Member
Ok, I see that my whole point is getting distorted. My comment on firearms was only in response to Buckley’s comment. I am pretty sure he was just trying to yank my chain, but the topic was a serious one and I did not want it to get twisted. I never mentioned firearms in my initial post as it is totally irrelevant here.
Folks, as a FYI, I immigrated to the US at the age of 18 and I was born and raised in a Muslim family. While I was never deeply religious, I regularly attended many religious events during my first 16 years of existence. I was (and still am), however, never the type to follow anyone or anything unless I was able to dissect the message for myself. I am also not afraid of confronting issues even if it is unpopular, and even if it is against people from the same background as me. Hence, the perspective that I stated previously is based on what I have seen and what I continue to see. There is nothing racist in being critical of the things that I have seen (and unfortunately continue to see) within the background that I come from. Sorry folks, but when my sh*t stinks, I admit it.
What is racist is if I were to say on the surface that everything is just hunky dory, but in reality when it gets down to the nitty gritty issues (like accepting someone from a different background as part of my family) my standards were to change. Just as an example, in my own family my maternal uncle screwed around with the “American Girls” like a tom cat, but when it came down to getting married, he went for someone from his own background. Now if anyone of his sisters did that, it would have been a major no-no. No one would lose their life over it, but they would have been ostracized. That is racist, but unfortunately it happens and even more unfortunate people lose lives over it. And please do not tell me that this is new news.
My folks brought us here for a better future just like any other immigrant group. However, when I moved to the US my goal was to blend in with the local population, and not run around looking for “my own people” (whatever that means). Even when I lived in Pakistan (for 10 years), my goal was to live as a Pakistani and not create a separation between myself (since I am of Persian/Iranian descent) and the local populace.
I also never mentioned about the work ethic of the S. Asian population. Many of them are as hardworking as many of the folks in the local population and they have some folks who milk the system just like some of folks in the local population.
Sorry Utaguara, if one is living in their adopted country then they need to look at that country as their home and her people as their own and not create any divide between themselves and the local population. Immigrating to a certain country and not calling it your home is like adopting a child and not calling the child your own just because you did not bring the child to this world.
My post is not about dumping traditions or forgetting where one immigrated from. I never said that. However, I do not believe in creating a separation between groups either. My post is about that very divide that is present between the Muslim community (from S. Asia) and the local populace.
It is about the need for the Muslim population realizing that they live in countries where, just like anyone else, they not only have the opportunity to be who they want to be and practice any sect of Islam they wish to practice. It is something they do not have even in their own countries. Try being a Shiite in Saudi Arabia. This freedom comes with a price. It does not mean that they can issue death sentences to anyone else who has been critical of their religion or what they believe is against their religion or their family.
It is about the youth in the Muslim population rejecting the negativism injected into them from a very young age. It is about them being confident that they are an integral part of their adopted countries and they have the same rights as a John Smith or Jane England. This is essential because if they are confident that if they might face repercussions from their family members (due to their rejection) they can not only go to the authorities but they have the entire country to turn to and not just people from their own background.
Most importantly, it is about the Muslim population not having the “us vs. them” mentality so that they will feel much more confident to truly come out and oppose the elements that have hijacked their religion. Without the “us vs. them” mentality the hotel becomes a home. Then let's see how successful the murderous terrorist leaders will be.
Last but not least, Morbyd is not defending me because I am also an American. Morbyd and I disagree on many issues, but we have always argued in a logical manner and not yapped at each other. Just like him, I have tremendous respect for what he states as they are informed. In addition, he is always open to other perspectives and logical reasoning rather than believing that his sh*t does not stink. He could not have said it better when he mentioned that I am basing this on first hand exposure and not from an outsider’s perspective.
Sorry for the long post.
Folks, as a FYI, I immigrated to the US at the age of 18 and I was born and raised in a Muslim family. While I was never deeply religious, I regularly attended many religious events during my first 16 years of existence. I was (and still am), however, never the type to follow anyone or anything unless I was able to dissect the message for myself. I am also not afraid of confronting issues even if it is unpopular, and even if it is against people from the same background as me. Hence, the perspective that I stated previously is based on what I have seen and what I continue to see. There is nothing racist in being critical of the things that I have seen (and unfortunately continue to see) within the background that I come from. Sorry folks, but when my sh*t stinks, I admit it.
What is racist is if I were to say on the surface that everything is just hunky dory, but in reality when it gets down to the nitty gritty issues (like accepting someone from a different background as part of my family) my standards were to change. Just as an example, in my own family my maternal uncle screwed around with the “American Girls” like a tom cat, but when it came down to getting married, he went for someone from his own background. Now if anyone of his sisters did that, it would have been a major no-no. No one would lose their life over it, but they would have been ostracized. That is racist, but unfortunately it happens and even more unfortunate people lose lives over it. And please do not tell me that this is new news.
My folks brought us here for a better future just like any other immigrant group. However, when I moved to the US my goal was to blend in with the local population, and not run around looking for “my own people” (whatever that means). Even when I lived in Pakistan (for 10 years), my goal was to live as a Pakistani and not create a separation between myself (since I am of Persian/Iranian descent) and the local populace.
I also never mentioned about the work ethic of the S. Asian population. Many of them are as hardworking as many of the folks in the local population and they have some folks who milk the system just like some of folks in the local population.
Sorry Utaguara, if one is living in their adopted country then they need to look at that country as their home and her people as their own and not create any divide between themselves and the local population. Immigrating to a certain country and not calling it your home is like adopting a child and not calling the child your own just because you did not bring the child to this world.
My post is not about dumping traditions or forgetting where one immigrated from. I never said that. However, I do not believe in creating a separation between groups either. My post is about that very divide that is present between the Muslim community (from S. Asia) and the local populace.
It is about the need for the Muslim population realizing that they live in countries where, just like anyone else, they not only have the opportunity to be who they want to be and practice any sect of Islam they wish to practice. It is something they do not have even in their own countries. Try being a Shiite in Saudi Arabia. This freedom comes with a price. It does not mean that they can issue death sentences to anyone else who has been critical of their religion or what they believe is against their religion or their family.
It is about the youth in the Muslim population rejecting the negativism injected into them from a very young age. It is about them being confident that they are an integral part of their adopted countries and they have the same rights as a John Smith or Jane England. This is essential because if they are confident that if they might face repercussions from their family members (due to their rejection) they can not only go to the authorities but they have the entire country to turn to and not just people from their own background.
Most importantly, it is about the Muslim population not having the “us vs. them” mentality so that they will feel much more confident to truly come out and oppose the elements that have hijacked their religion. Without the “us vs. them” mentality the hotel becomes a home. Then let's see how successful the murderous terrorist leaders will be.
Last but not least, Morbyd is not defending me because I am also an American. Morbyd and I disagree on many issues, but we have always argued in a logical manner and not yapped at each other. Just like him, I have tremendous respect for what he states as they are informed. In addition, he is always open to other perspectives and logical reasoning rather than believing that his sh*t does not stink. He could not have said it better when he mentioned that I am basing this on first hand exposure and not from an outsider’s perspective.
Sorry for the long post.
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Buckley
Well-Known Member
Moha
Well-Known Member
You're talking nonsense.
Been muslim or black doesn't allow exclusivity for critisicm over your community.
The topic is about a woman punished twice and not a view of a single person with good/bad experiences while living abroad.
Fine!
I just think its funny how people go off and use all kinds of language and attitude when they think I'm male...and then get offended because they think its a male who's talking to them.
if you knew I was female from the beginning , you wouldn't have got so uptight as you did.
Why are you so assuming you know what he means or what he would or wouldn't have done?
I've no reason to defend Spikey but you interpreted his statement to mean something different and then proceeded to wind him up.
Spikey said nothing about invading other countries, yet you continued to insinuate that he did despite his clarification to the opposite.
??
Morbyd
Moderator
and you, for the 2nd or 3rd time, have reinterpreted what I wrote.
I never said having a certain set of live experiences gives you exclusivity. I said it gives you insight. The conclusions your draw from that insight might be good or bad, but they are informed.
And your attacks on other posters have had little to do with that very unfortunate women, with whom I think we all sympathize fully.
Why are you so assuming you know what he means or what he would or wouldn't have done?
I've no reason to defend Spikey but you interpreted his statement to mean something different and then proceeded to wind him up.
Spikey said nothing about invading other countries, yet you continued to insinuate that he did despite his clarification to the opposite.
So I misinterpreted his post..Why do you think I wound him up? Did you see how he replied??
Moha
Well-Known Member
I didn't attack "posters", I reacted to LB' rejection of muslims.
We should keep it there as we agree on the woman's pain.
Yeah, he clarified what he meant.
Which you ignored.
You kept on insinuating that he said they "should" change.
He said that they "can" change.
But you had a point to make, so not's let the facts get in the way.
And then you finished by stating he wouldn't have been so aggressive if he knew you were a woman.
How do you know this? Or is this just you interpreting what he posted to fit a point you would like to make- yet again?
And for the record I don't think he over reacted. You admitted you tried to wind him up, so congrats, that's what you got.
You are "Passive aggressive" I think it's called over your side of the Atlantic.