diver
Well-Known Member
FlatEric is Elrow?
☣ Coronavirus ☣
- Thread starter ibiza77
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JayDR8
Active Member
My expectations are gyms and non essential shops April and pubs/restaurants May. Will be happy with any sooner.
We will be in double digit figures of deaths in March so there will be significant pressure to open. By June/July I’d expect close enough to domestic normality for a while here.
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Buckley
Well-Known Member
Yeah, to be fair he posted that he asked for a name-change to avoid any collateral damage to the brand. Rumours that sales of Levis have since collapsed are as yet unconfirmed
Buckley
Well-Known Member
I just took a refund on £5k's worth of tickets - if it goes ahead this year, it will surely be limited numbers and a pretty flat atmosphere
Ibizapaul
Active Member
Yeah that's what I thought, if we get 50% crowds it will be a bonus. The superbowl had 22k in a stadium off 65k. The spare seats had cardboard cut-outs, and 7.5k of the people there were vaccinated heath workers. It would be a nice touch if we could do something similar here at Wembley, give tickets to frontline workers as a thankyou
I decided to take a step back from this thread the last few days and read the conversation as objectively as possible. Of course, in practice, I accept that's impossible as I have my own biases.
Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but all pro-lockdown vs anti-lockdown disagreements can be traced back to a couple of points:
@FlatErik firstly, a) believes that personal accountability is absolute.
This I understand. This is surely the ideal - everybody looking after themselves and taking responsibility for their own actions and therefore health.
Unfortunately, humans are all selfish creatures, to varying degrees - some worse than others. Some a lot worse. Society is complex.
Therefore, as much as this would be great, I don't believe it is in any way realistic. The evidence is all around us. Minor infractions everywhere you look, from genuine, decent people, in addition to those who brazenly and sometimes boastfully flout the rules. (I'm sure all of us can admit to a minor breach if we're honest)
Secondly, b) by his own admission, he considers some fatalities not as tragic as others. Or to put it another way, that some lives are more expendable than others. Please understand, I don't mean to misrepresent him here, nor dig him out or make judgment in any way, but I think that's a fair assessment of the various comments posted in the last few months.
The thing is, when you take those two factors into consideration, anybody with that mindset - rightly or wrongly - is going to feel like the implemented measures are disproportional and sway towards, for want of a better word, a conspiracy. Let's compromise and call it "an injustice"
It's clear he won't change his mind, and if he feels that way as above, it's obvious why.
Equally, I feel he needs to accept that the vast majority of people on these forums and life in general, just hold human life in more regard than him. Again, that's not trying to point score. I'm just not sure how else you could interpret it?
But enough of the differences.
The fact is, when you look to the common ground, everybody in this thread is:
... and yet, now, as has been pointed out, life in those countries has returned to relatively normality whilst the rest of us in Europe are still very much in the deep shit.
Which kind of underlines the point, that the best approach was to come down hard and eat shit for a short period, to get back on with our lives in the longer, or perhaps more accurately, medium term.
No nation which took a nonchalant approach to Covid is a good position right now. Only the ones that acted quick and hard.
You speak to most people in Spain, particularly Brits living in Spain, and they will tell you that Britain never really had a lockdown at all. When you compare it to Spain's first lockdown, they are correct.
Governments with a mountainous bodycount on their watch (120,000 in the case of the UK), at this stage of the pandemic, in the middle of winter, with a vaccine programme already started or imminently about to start, there's just no way - NO WAYYYYYY - any of them are going to backtrack and open the flood gates now. Sorry to say, you're leaving in dream world if you think that they would. You can argue about it until the sun comes up, ain't gonna change nothing
You also have to say, the scientific community, no doubt feeling very frustrated at not being listened to, not only now, but for decades before, are going to be pressing for the hardest measures to counteract the previous bad decisions. Is it "fear porn"? To be honest, I became numb the figures of 1,000 reported daily deaths some time ago - a damning indictment. It's now really such an afterthought. At the start, we were told that if we could get below 20,000 deaths, we would have done well. Seems like a sick joke now. Oh, how arrogant we were. Now I'm the one who's seeing merely figures and not the real people behind them
If you look around the world at the shining examples, the only conclusion can be that hard and fast was the right way. Short term pain for long term gain.
@FlatErik will vehemently disagree, of course, because a), b)
He might, on reflection, consider why no government, not even his regularly touted Sweden, has gone down the road he suggests.
From NZ to Iran, deeply conservative to liberal and every shade inbetween, that would be quite the global collaboration to have all these nations with opposing views, lifestyles and constitutions all in on the act and on the same page when they are so often at loggerheads for considerably more trivial matters
Did we get lockdowns wrong? Too right we did: too late and not strong enough. One of a litany of failings that either allowed Covid in or exasperated the situation. This is the price we are paying now
Btw, although I'm in the "pro-lockdown camp", whatever that means, I had some grim reading on a YouGov poll last night: the vast majority of respondees want schools, hospitality, non-essential retail and overseas travel restricted for another 6 months or longer!!
Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but all pro-lockdown vs anti-lockdown disagreements can be traced back to a couple of points:
@FlatErik firstly, a) believes that personal accountability is absolute.
This I understand. This is surely the ideal - everybody looking after themselves and taking responsibility for their own actions and therefore health.
Unfortunately, humans are all selfish creatures, to varying degrees - some worse than others. Some a lot worse. Society is complex.
Therefore, as much as this would be great, I don't believe it is in any way realistic. The evidence is all around us. Minor infractions everywhere you look, from genuine, decent people, in addition to those who brazenly and sometimes boastfully flout the rules. (I'm sure all of us can admit to a minor breach if we're honest)
Secondly, b) by his own admission, he considers some fatalities not as tragic as others. Or to put it another way, that some lives are more expendable than others. Please understand, I don't mean to misrepresent him here, nor dig him out or make judgment in any way, but I think that's a fair assessment of the various comments posted in the last few months.
The thing is, when you take those two factors into consideration, anybody with that mindset - rightly or wrongly - is going to feel like the implemented measures are disproportional and sway towards, for want of a better word, a conspiracy. Let's compromise and call it "an injustice"
It's clear he won't change his mind, and if he feels that way as above, it's obvious why.
Equally, I feel he needs to accept that the vast majority of people on these forums and life in general, just hold human life in more regard than him. Again, that's not trying to point score. I'm just not sure how else you could interpret it?
But enough of the differences.
The fact is, when you look to the common ground, everybody in this thread is:
- fed up with lockdowns
- disappointed with some, if not all, of their governments response
- wary about what is being reported in press
- would rather a safe, alternative to lockdowns was available and that our governments had acted differently
... and yet, now, as has been pointed out, life in those countries has returned to relatively normality whilst the rest of us in Europe are still very much in the deep shit.
Which kind of underlines the point, that the best approach was to come down hard and eat shit for a short period, to get back on with our lives in the longer, or perhaps more accurately, medium term.
No nation which took a nonchalant approach to Covid is a good position right now. Only the ones that acted quick and hard.
You speak to most people in Spain, particularly Brits living in Spain, and they will tell you that Britain never really had a lockdown at all. When you compare it to Spain's first lockdown, they are correct.
Governments with a mountainous bodycount on their watch (120,000 in the case of the UK), at this stage of the pandemic, in the middle of winter, with a vaccine programme already started or imminently about to start, there's just no way - NO WAYYYYYY - any of them are going to backtrack and open the flood gates now. Sorry to say, you're leaving in dream world if you think that they would. You can argue about it until the sun comes up, ain't gonna change nothing
You also have to say, the scientific community, no doubt feeling very frustrated at not being listened to, not only now, but for decades before, are going to be pressing for the hardest measures to counteract the previous bad decisions. Is it "fear porn"? To be honest, I became numb the figures of 1,000 reported daily deaths some time ago - a damning indictment. It's now really such an afterthought. At the start, we were told that if we could get below 20,000 deaths, we would have done well. Seems like a sick joke now. Oh, how arrogant we were. Now I'm the one who's seeing merely figures and not the real people behind them
If you look around the world at the shining examples, the only conclusion can be that hard and fast was the right way. Short term pain for long term gain.
@FlatErik will vehemently disagree, of course, because a), b)
He might, on reflection, consider why no government, not even his regularly touted Sweden, has gone down the road he suggests.
From NZ to Iran, deeply conservative to liberal and every shade inbetween, that would be quite the global collaboration to have all these nations with opposing views, lifestyles and constitutions all in on the act and on the same page when they are so often at loggerheads for considerably more trivial matters
Did we get lockdowns wrong? Too right we did: too late and not strong enough. One of a litany of failings that either allowed Covid in or exasperated the situation. This is the price we are paying now
Btw, although I'm in the "pro-lockdown camp", whatever that means, I had some grim reading on a YouGov poll last night: the vast majority of respondees want schools, hospitality, non-essential retail and overseas travel restricted for another 6 months or longer!!
soha
Well-Known Member
Good man this is exactly the type of horny suggestions I need right nai
lee111s
Well-Known Member
Aye these are my expectations too. All hinges on there not being a noticable increase in the case rates once the schools go back, which is exactly why I think they’ll wait 3 weeks or so after the kids go back.
2H76
Well-Known Member
No. I would bet my last farthing that there will be on - or severely limited - crowds wherever they are played, and no-one from outside the country/city where they are played. IMO that makes the whole competition meaningless, what's the point without the colour of the Dutch/Scots fans etc??
When the draw for the World Vup was made, I was looking forward to Gibraltar v Metherlands.....end of March. the game will go ahead but devastatingly no fans.
I was down to go and watch a few county cricket games in April/May/June (Lancashire's away games) - booking rooms etc. Not a chance, if I get to a game in May (at home) I'll now take that as a plus.
2H76
Well-Known Member
Numbers of cases will stay low during that time - due to the lag - then they will open up bars, the cases will immediately shoot up (from the lag of the schools re-opening) but they will blame that on the bars.
lee111s
Well-Known Member
Exposure to feeling ill and subsequently getting a test is approx 5-8 days, so three weeks will be enough time to determine the impact.
Gyms and “personal services” will likely open before hospitality and again I’d expect there to be a 3-4 week gap between the two sectors opening.
Should cancel the Euros, sorry to say. Not because of Covid directly. But the fitness of the players. They are gonna be run into the ground after the club season ends, then expected to fly all over Europe in the summer, then back to a full domestic season with a winter world cup dumped in the middle. Barmy
No point playing internationals without fans. Cancel Qatar 2022 while they're at it. Stupid idea in the first place
No point playing internationals without fans. Cancel Qatar 2022 while they're at it. Stupid idea in the first place
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FlatErik
Well-Known Member
Appreciate the long post. Two things I want to reply to.
1. Despite what everyone here claims or thinks...Sweden still holds on to their initial approach with some adjustments. It still very much relies on personal responsibilities. They had their second wave, but we all did. The only difference is they did this with no or a very light lockdown.
2. I must agree on at least one thing. While I absolutely feel anti-lockdown or anti any freedom restricting measure.. a short strict lockdown in the beginning of the pandemic might have been the better way indeed. We have had light lockdowns, so called intelligent lockdowns and now a strict lockdown with an added evening curfew on op of it. But...The Netherlands is a major travel hub, planes, trains, automobiles...it's just impossible to keep the virus out of your country after that.
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FlatErik
Well-Known Member
You can always withdraw the like you gave my post a few pages back before you knew it was me
claretclubber
Well-Known Member
Nothing that a few vuvuzelas wouldn't sort out
Yes, Mostly relies on personal responsibilities. There are no curfews or limits on personal gatherings in your home. Masks are recommended during rush hours in public transport.
Actual rules
Bars/restaurants close at 8 (with max 4 ppl per table). If not followed, restaurants can be fined/closed.
Max no. of ppl in gyms/stores etc. 100m2 = max 10 ppl.
Ban on visits to nursing homes.
State-run facilities like swimming halls/libraries etc are generally closed.
Or those perennial nutters The England BandNothing that a few vuvuzelas wouldn't sort out
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