☣ Coronavirus ☣

[MrHullMysterious]

View attachment 11431

That good news, but a drop in the ocean; UK would use that up in one day!

The EU messed up really, they I suspect negotiated for ages to get a cheap price (which they did compared to UK) but meant they're a little late getting the contracts signed and actioned.

 

[djedwardsmith]

Yeah the EU royally messed up and doubled down this week by threatening restrictions. Member states have every reason to be pissed off with how it's been handled.

Cheers for all the kind comments btw - pretty much just a waiting game for all of us now, very little you can do but drink and rest.

 

[Tadas]

UK signed contracts with vaccine producers completely absolving them from any legal liability. That is why they were so quick to kick it off. Maybe it is acceptable considering the circumstances, but I am comfortable with EU taking it a bit slower. It is not like they are behind by half a year. I think come August, we will see about the same level of vaccination both in EU and UK. Lets wait a bit and then judge who made the best choices.

 

[Michael1982]

Yeah, while I agree that it's best to keep things in perspective and remember that we are still in the beginning stages of vaccination no matter what, I read that 1 day of lockdown in the entire EU costs as much as it would have cost to buy enough vaccinations for 60% of the EU population from the 6 most promising companies each last summer (somewhere around 36 bn. EUR).

Genuinely don't know if that stat is correct, but I don't think the actual numbers matter much, seeing as it looks like the late signing of contracts and negotiating cost us much more time than a few days of lockdown.

That does piss me off regarding the EU. Always defend it, but here, they did mess up and now do not admit it.

 

[tclubber]

I read that 1 day of lockdown in the entire EU costs as much as it would have cost to buy enough vaccinations for 60% of the EU population from the 6 most promising companies each last summer (somewhere around 36 bn. EUR).

This number is too high. The daily EU GDP is 50 bn EUR and the GDP surely didn't fall by 2/3. But the weekly cost of the lockdown could well be in that region.

The mistake was to delegate the vaccine procurement to the EU in the first place - by doing this, we introduced a single point of failure. The EU isn't needed to combat the pandemic - we saw it during the first wave, when every country did its own thing and it worked. But some politicians wanted to show "European solidarity" this time, and it means we may have to spend the summer on our balconies

 

[kimajy]

That does piss me off regarding the EU. Always defend it, but here, they did mess up and now do not admit it.

They have shown the very worst side of themselves, the vindictive teflon coated side which has lashed out in all directions in an uncontrolled way, completely unbefitting of a Governing body, and caused more damage to UK public's view of them over this one matter than in 4 years of Brexit negotiations. The sentiment is turning rapidly to "glad to be shot of them" on this side of the Channel.

 

[Tadas]

Current lockdowns and pace of vaccination are too separate matters. UK is ahead on vaccination, but still has some of the highest rates of infection in Europe. At least at this point, vaccines have no effect on cutting the lockdown short (and thus, eliminating the need for calculation of savings made). This obviously will become a factor soon - but not for a few months (by that time, lockdowns will be lifted anyway).

While I agree that EU blundered spectacularly with the Irish thing and export bans, I still think that buying collectively was smart. Reasons - first, smaller EU countries had no chance of getting anything simillar to current deals (and if you have vaccination divergencies between neighbouring countries, the whole program doesnt make sense). Second, EU managed to get the companies to agree at least on partial liability in case things go wrong. UK and US forfeited this demand, and managed to conclude negotiations earlier because of it. To me, it feels like it was worth it to keep some accountability.

More about that and why it is important here:

Exclusive: AstraZeneca gets partial immunity in low-cost EU vaccine deal

European governments will pay claims above an agreed limit against AstraZeneca over side-effects from its potential COVID-19 vaccine, under different terms to a deal struck with Sanofi, an EU official told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

 

[mr_why]

UK signed contracts with vaccine producers completely absolving them from any legal liability. That is why they were so quick to kick it off. Maybe it is acceptable considering the circumstances, but I am comfortable with EU taking it a bit slower. It is not like they are behind by half a year. I think come August, we will see about the same level of vaccination both in EU and UK. Lets wait a bit and then judge who made the best choices.

Yes, there is a lot of truth in this. This is why I hate this continual arms race and comparison between this country and that country.

Germany did amazing job 12 months ago as they had some of the best testing capability in the world. It meant they could control it. The U.K. had hardly any test capacity, it was a joke. They were managing 5,000 a day, and that’s why it spread. Thankfully they finally sorted it and we can do 750,000-1M a DAY now.

On the Vaccine front, the worst trait of Boris Johnson - roll the dice at every vaccine, don’t worry about cost, pay over the odds, and let the companies take zero liability- this time paid off. The vaccines all work, we have mountains of them. BUT it could have been a disaster.

The EU’s best traits turned out to be bad in this instance. They were considered, they took time, they are rules based, they negotiate hard as anything, they (I think) still have liability with the companies etc.

Sometimes luck plays a part in the world...

 

[Springal]

Amazing to see that the NHS delivered 600k COVID jabs on Saturday alone. That is nearly 1% of the UK population and 20% higher than the previous daily peak. Assuming that is delivered during daylight hours only that is about 14 every second

Interesting to see the leaked figures of the EU contract with AZ, although without knowing the UK ones difficult to put into context.

 

[cunninghamali]

My 90-year-old grandmother had the vaccine

 

[mr_why]

Interesting to see the leaked figures of the EU contract with AZ, although without knowing the UK ones difficult to put into context.

They would have placed a bigger order, so you’d assume they got a better price.

 

[tclubber]

I still think that buying collectively was smart. Reasons - first, smaller EU countries had no chance of getting anything simillar to current deals

Large EU countries could have resold/donated the vaccine to them - all this without facing the horrible costs of a prolonged lockdown caused by the EU dragging its feet and trying to be nice to all manufacturers.

(and if you have vaccination divergencies between neighbouring countries, the whole program doesnt make sense).

Not really. Every single jab of vaccine helps reduce the virus spread. If London gets fully vaccinated, the virus will be eliminated in London, no matter what happens in the rest of the country. This is very unlike lockdowns, where the virus tends to spread back to virus-free regions. Once people are immune, the virus is gone for good.

Second, EU managed to get the companies to agree at least on partial liability in case things go wrong.

In case things go wrong and the vaccine causes widespread side effects, the companies would not be able to afford paying compensation to everyone, so this is a moot point. The amount spent monthly on supporting EU economies during the lockdown (10s of billions EUR) is much higher than you can realistically extract from vaccine manufacturers in compensation payments. So the state should have assumed liability here. Would be both cheaper and smarter.

 

[Springal]

336M Euro upfront apparently - 1/3rd of whole cost, each EU member states responsible for paying for fill / finish / packaging.

Should the cost of producing the EU's "initial Europe doses" exceed the €870m set aside for doing so, AstraZeneca is entitled to recharge the excess back to the EU. If the cost is substantially less than that, it appears the pharma firm must reimburse the EU with the difference.

 

[2H76]

My 90-year-old grandmother had the vaccine

Out on the razz tomorrow!!

 

[2H76]

Big week in the UK coming up, can the rate of vaccines continue at this pace - or better - and can we get new cases to around 10- 12k average by this time next week? the latter's a big ask but currently the % rates of decrease improve every day (went from -24 to -31% week-on-week over 7 days) and we are getting closer to a review of lockdown.

Word has it that the government pland/hopes to open up hospitality by May, the hospitality industry are asking for April, before easter. they lost easter last year, so have one heck of a case to get re-opened. Against that is how busy they would be over a long holiday weekend. I think a compromise should be reached, opening as of tier 2 April 1; but move to tier 1 rules the first Monday after the easter hols.

 

[lee111s]

290k jabs yetserday. 48% up on last Monday’s figures.

Imagine if we could hit the 500-600k a day for a full week!

 

[cunninghamali]

290k jabs yetserday. 48% up on last Monday’s figures.

Imagine if we could hit the 500-600k a day for a full week!

Quite proud of uk for doing well on the jab

 

[mr_why]

Quite proud of uk for doing well on the jab

It’s a bit like my comment above, sometimes things come together by accident.

I mean I love many aspects of the U.K. NHS, but I also think one size fits all has many downsides. BUT, when you have 90-95% of the entire population registered with a GP on one data base... then it’s bloody easy to just work through one long to do list... hence why they are getting through people quite fast

 

[kimajy]

336M Euro upfront apparently - 1/3rd of whole cost, each EU member states responsible for paying for fill / finish / packaging.

Should the cost of producing the EU's "initial Europe doses" exceed the €870m set aside for doing so, AstraZeneca is entitled to recharge the excess back to the EU. If the cost is substantially less than that, it appears the pharma firm must reimburse the EU with the difference.

Astrazeneca is a not-for-profit operation so makes sense it should also be a not-for-loss. To be honest, the cost savings from using this vaccine versus other alternatives is not insignificant. I think EU are pinning at least some of their hopes of a full pre-Summer rollout to the under-65s and healthcare workers on AZ whereas other parts of the world are looking to it for their elderly and that's where the tensions are going to emerge again ?

If it were not for the Pfizer supply disruption the EU's initial rollout would not have been put in such peril so that is where the problems really started and the cause of this is that company's shutdown to accommodate even more late orders from the EU themselves.

 

[tclubber]

Here is an interesting read of how the vaccine procurement should have been:

How Singapore picked its Covid-19 vaccines (Straits Times)

Last June, Singapore sealed its first deal to buy Covid-19 vaccines - before any of the more than 200 vaccine candidates had even started their phase three clinical trials

(...)

Buying a vaccine that may never make it to the market was a new concept for most pharmaceutical companies, he said.

"The drug industry is probably the most regulated industry. And drug companies will sell only drugs that are fully approved."

But most of the 40-plus companies agreed. After signing non-disclosure agreements, the panel managed to talk to "the elites of the projects" such as the chief medical officers, scientists and the people who did pre-trial tests and those who ran the clinical trials.

Where necessary, colleagues from Singapore's regulator, the Health Sciences Authority, visited the production plants to check on the quality of their processes.

With the agreements, he said "it allowed us to actually have access to data before they were published".

(...)

Since deliveries are usually spread over six months or more, buying from different companies ensured an early first batch and a steady flow of vaccines.

By the end of last year, the first batch of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was already in Singapore. By now, more than 100,000 people have been vaccinated.

And what did the EU do back in June 2020? It only then found out that masks were helpful against Covid and made them mandatory

Any EU effort to procure vaccines didn't start until August, with the first contract signed in November. Vaccine suppliers showed a huge amount of generosity by not telling the EU to go pound sand and selling the vaccine to the highest bidders first instead...