☣ Coronavirus ☣

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2H76 said:
Think in tomorrows Sunday Mail (may have been in today, I try to avoid it) there's an article suggesting Oxford scientists believe/have proved that 1/3 of covid deaths are simply those that died with covid, not of it, such as cancer or even car accidents.

Nothing we didn't assume already, that the figures banded around r/e deaths are questionable. If figures for infections rise, then so will deaths - with covid, not necessarily of covid.

If you are poorly already and your systems are weak, you may well be infected much easier, yet it's the original case that causes death, covid is merely a bystander. Why can't they be honest with us??
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Plus the excess deaths that was so high during peak approx 18000 a week during April where compared to previous year it was 9000. After the Covid related deaths recorded roughly 4000, what was the other 5000 deaths from? I know sone would guess they wasn’t Covid tested but my guess is purely because of lock down these deaths occurred . With that I think lockdown could have been a total waste of time.
 
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gutsy said:
I know sone would guess they wasn’t Covid tested but my guess is purely because of lock down these deaths occurred . With that I think lockdown could have been a total waste of time.
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Incorrect math. The point of the lockdown was to prevent more deaths (with hospitals full, there would be no way to treat sick people, both covid and non-covid, otherwise).

The question is not lockdown deaths vs. covid deaths that happened, but lockdown deaths vs. covid deaths that did not happen due to lockdown.
 
tclubber said:
Incorrect math. The point of the lockdown was to prevent more deaths (with hospitals full, there would be no way to treat sick people, both covid and non-covid, otherwise).

The question is not lockdown deaths vs. covid deaths that happened, but lockdown deaths vs. covid deaths that did not happen due to lockdown.
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But we have been out of lockdown with controlled measures now ie masks distance rules in pubs work shops ect . And we are getting low deaths. Of course if we will go into lockdown now that will bring Covid rates down but will the non Covid deaths rise again because of it?
 
gutsy said:
But we have been out of lockdown with controlled measures now ie masks distance rules in pubs work shops ect . And we are getting low deaths.
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If cases weren't rising, I would have agreed with you.

But with cases (including those requiring treatment in hospitals) on the rise, we need countermeasures, otherwise the hospitals will become full again and we'll have a problem. Better act early.
 
Trouble is not all the hospitals were full, From many reports and the fear that the public have now is what will stop people wanting to leave the house, go to hospital for vital appointments, Or if they fall ill. Obviously the message isn’t getting across to everyone and cases are rising, and time will tell once the true figures come out. I just don’t get why the number of deaths are not at the same levels as previous.
 
gutsy said:
Trouble is not all the hospitals were full, From many reports and the fear that the public have now is what will stop people wanting to leave the house, go to hospital for vital appointments, Or if they fall ill. Obviously the message isn’t getting across to everyone and cases are rising, and time will tell once the true figures come out. I just don’t get why the number of deaths are not at the same levels as previous.
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Low levels of the virus about. “Case numbers” are not a true representation of those with it due to the false positive issues explained in the link I posted earlier.

Those who do have it, aren’t typically in the age range which are likely to require clinical treatment and as a result, even less likey to die. Further proving that we need to protect the vulnerable whilst allowing the virus to circulate the general population.

Hospitalisation numbers given by the Government are also not a clear indicator of people clinically ill and needing medical help because of Sars-CoV2 infection.

Every inpatient is tested upon admission and if the PCR test returns a positive (baring in mind the issue with false positives and potentially picking up RNA from an infection up to 3 months ago) they are then counted as a covid hospital admission.
 
2H76 said:
Think in tomorrows Sunday Mail (may have been in today, I try to avoid it) there's an article suggesting Oxford scientists believe/have proved that 1/3 of covid deaths are simply those that died with covid, not of it, such as cancer or even car accidents.

Nothing we didn't assume already, that the figures banded around r/e deaths are questionable. If figures for infections rise, then so will deaths - with covid, not necessarily of covid.

If you are poorly already and your systems are weak, you may well be infected much easier, yet it's the original case that causes death, covid is merely a bystander. Why can't they be honest with us??
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Why do you assume they're being dishonest? Why could it not be the case that this is an entirely new disease that there is zero evidence for, that people far smarter than you or I are still learning about and still studying?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it's worth keeping in mind the information those decision makers had at the time said decisions were made. Which leads onto this point:

gutsy said:
Trouble is not all the hospitals were full, From many reports and the fear that the public have now is what will stop people wanting to leave the house, go to hospital for vital appointments, Or if they fall ill. Obviously the message isn’t getting across to everyone and cases are rising, and time will tell once the true figures come out. I just don’t get why the number of deaths are not at the same levels as previous.
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Because at the last peak, they were only testing people in hospital, who were obviously those who were seriously ill and therefore the death rate relative to the number of confirmed positives would have been quite high. Now with every man and his dog getting tested, so many people with mild to no symptoms are being confirmed and giving a more accurate picture of the 'overall' death rate for the public. But what it doesn't change is the threat/fatality rate of the virus among those most at risk.

That would explain why we don't yet have the level of deaths being reported as we did when we had a similar number of cases as with the first peak. But the whole issue with Covid is how easily it spreads - something that can clearly be seen with how Spain has spiralled in recent weeks. I would warn caution about singing the praises of Sweden just yet - people (including I) were looking at Spain's handling of the crisis with envy in the initial weeks, and there's every chance Sweden could just be lagging behind with a second wave whilst students are away from school.
 
white_isle_calling said:
Interesting briefing going on in the UK right now, where the chief medical and scientific officers are directly addressing a lot of the soundbytes from the naysayers

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Lots of "need to take quick action", so probs means bojo will meander onto our screens some time mid week to announce bars/restaurants early closure... but not till next Monday. So everyone can have another blow out ?‍♂️

Think might be rules of 6 and 2.
Max 6 people
Max 2 households

Great. First time going to see friends since lockdown was planned this Saturday. ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️?
 
white_isle_calling said:
Interesting briefing going on in the UK right now, where the chief medical and scientific officers are directly addressing a lot of the soundbytes from the naysayers

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Well they don’t want to believe the politicians, statistics, media or pharmaceutical firms. I can understand that to a point. Let’s hope they believe the scientists. The problem with the nay sayers is they are seeking any to question interventions. The bigger worry is their refusal to accept we need to be proactive as opposed reactive this time.

Let’s hope the public take heed and that is doesn’t need heavy policing. Small and big P.
 
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