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2H76 said:
That's been the biggest problem, since around 2012 my "escape time" has been limited due to getting care cover in (at some expense) but safe in the knowledge that on second death (which was Mum in Jan) I'll be retired, but still in good health, solvent and good to go.

So I've lost four months in addition to all the caring time, so bloody hell am I gonna catch that up. Probably next year now if CV doesn't return. So, yes, escapism, very much so. At least I'm still alive and don't have to worry about fitting holidays around a job.

Escapism doesn't involve dancing......
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Fair play. I hear ya.
 
PP said:
I suppose what I'm struggling to understand (because I'm older) is why in the current climate people are so desperate to go clubbing. To the point where it overrides any kind of logic? E.g musical chairs etc
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While I do agree- I don't think the youngsters going to these things understand the risks or the lawless nature of these events. But regardless even if the authorities decided now that they needed to do something to entertain the youth - it takes months to properly plan & safely put on an event so it's never going to happen.
 
PP said:
I suppose what I'm struggling to understand (because I'm older) is why in the current climate people are so desperate to go clubbing. To the point where it overrides any kind of logic? E.g musical chairs etc
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For some of us, even those past our 20's and 30's, its about a lot more than escapism too. It's where we meet new friends and catch up with people we know, have blissful experiences, and find some of the best happiness in our lives.

The idea and experience of not getting to have that again for months (and possibility not for a year or more) is truly depressing for many of us -- and many people engage in much riskier when faced with depressing times. If I allow myself to think about getting older and how many "great summers" I still have to look forward to, it's even easier to think that it might be worth taking some risk to salvage one of those summers.
 
TheGreatRabbit said:
For some of us, even those past our 20's and 30's, its about a lot more than escapism too. It's where we meet new friends and catch up with people we know, have blissful experiences, and find some of the best happiness in our lives.

The idea and experience of not getting to have that again for months (and possibility not for a year or more) is truly depressing for many of us -- and many people engage in much riskier when faced with depressing times. If I allow myself to think about getting older and how many "great summers" I still have to look forward to, it's even easier to think that it might be worth taking some risk to salvage one of those summers.
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Really interesting to get your perspective!
 
Springal said:
While I do agree- I don't think the youngsters going to these things understand the risks or the lawless nature of these events. But regardless even if the authorities decided now that they needed to do something to entertain the youth - it takes months to properly plan & safely put on an event so it's never going to happen.
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I think when your younger you are naturally more reckless
 
TheGreatRabbit said:
For some of us, even those past our 20's and 30's, its about a lot more than escapism too. It's where we meet new friends and catch up with people we know, have blissful experiences, and find some of the best happiness in our lives.
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I agree - but I get some of that from other things I've had to give up and do without too lately !!

On the escapism front, drugs used to help with that and I gave them up a long time ago because the costs outweighed the pleasure. Same with alcohol (later) and even smoking tobacco. I can get escapism by going for a run. But there's an uncomfortable aspect to it alongside the pleasure and benefits which come after. With clubbing the pain comes after the pleasure. I think a lot of people (young and old) just want the instant pleasure and to pay later, just as they do with buying a load of stuff they can't really afford.

In the end, people want hedonism and as we all know from our History in the end Hedonism is at the root of humanity's cyclical downfall.
 
PP said:
I suppose what I'm struggling to understand (because I'm older) is why in the current climate people are so desperate to go clubbing. To the point where it overrides any kind of logic? E.g musical chairs etc
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To be fair, it isn't just clubbing. In the United States, older people have been particularly ticked off about bans on large religious gatherings despite the fact there is ample evidence that it is a great environment to spread disease. There have been many cases of religious orgs having services despite government orders to the contrary, just like "illegal" raves.

As someone who spent several years working in the field of risk management, I can tell you people are not good at evaluating risk. This can be due to not fully understanding the risks but also due to biases. With respect to COVID-19 there are groups that are over and under cautious but a majority of people somewhere in the middle. Those people have started to venture out and when the world didn't end after that backyard BBQ, then they tried the beer garden and the world didn't end, so they continue to push the boundaries. Add in the people who see someone else breaking the guidelines and think "why should I follow the rules if nobody else is?" and you get the results we see in the US.
 
I believe the EU list of non-EU visitors came out today:

Canadians (in)
Americans (out)

From what I understand, the list is reviewed every two weeks. ?
 
CasaNegron said:
I believe the EU list of non-EU visitors came out today:

Canadians (in)
Americans (out)

From what I understand, the list is reviewed every two weeks. ?
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Question for anyone in the know -- has it been stated what the standard is for determining someone's nationality for purposes of entering under this rule? Is it simply citizenship / the country on one's passport; flash that and you're in? Or do other factors matter like place of permanent residence and/or originating city on your trip.
 
CasaNegron said:
I believe the EU list of non-EU visitors came out today:

Canadians (in)
Americans (out)

From what I understand, the list is reviewed every two weeks. ?
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I feel sorry for the americans who have looked after themselves and everyone else. It's not their fault their president and his followers are barmcakes.

Looking at a map of the worst areas for infection - please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they Trump-supporting areas, many who would never travel anyway? So their actions have stopped the good guys from having their holidays.

May end up with certain states being allowed to fly in, but as Pakman alludes to that won't prevent cross-border traffic to an airport.
 
2H76 said:
please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they Trump-supporting areas, many who would never travel anyway?
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Its all over. A lot of attention is currently on Texas and Florida because they opened aggressively about 6 weeks back, but California is surging too. Big, spacious countries are hard to manage.

The EU left Russia, Brazil and China "out" too.
 
JB2008 said:
Question for anyone in the know -- has it been stated what the standard is for determining someone's nationality for purposes of entering under this rule? Is it simply citizenship / the country on one's passport; flash that and you're in? Or do other factors matter like place of permanent residence and/or originating city on your trip.
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I am not a border agent but from what I understand: If you have an EU passport you can fly out of the US today to the EU. An american living in the UK would have no problems traveling within the EU either... maybe questions.
 
CasaNegron said:
I am not a border agent but from what I understand: If you have an EU passport you can fly out of the US today to the EU. An american living in the UK would have no problems traveling within the EU either... maybe questions.
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That's true, but americans still can't fly over from the US to the EU orUK
 
PP said:
I've never really read into the psychology of a clubber but I suppose you right - It's what I have enjoyed the most.

I'm interested to know the POV from a younger person still. I suppose it's not one size fits all
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@beans explain The Dance

 
2H76 said:
That's true, but americans still can't fly over from the US to the EU orUK
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Well, there are flights. I'm wondering how the EU sorts out which people to turn back. Is it purely based on what passport the traveler presents on arrival?

CasaNegron said:
An american living in the UK would have no problems traveling within the EU either... maybe questions.
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If true this would be a counterexample -- you're saying an American (or Brazilian etc) living in the UK would be able to cross into Europe despite holding the wrong passport, as long as place of permanent residence is on the good list?
 
JB2008 said:
Well, there are flights. I'm wondering how the EU sorts out which people to turn back. Is it purely based on what passport the traveler presents on arrival?
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You wouldn’t get on the flight without prior approval or that your flight is ‘essential’
 
The airline probably does most of the screening before you are ticketed, with general questions.

Apparently, there are only 14 countries that made the cut. Its not final, but a bit of a pain in the ass for planning. A country can fall out the standings and be "relegated" too.

My SWAG (scientific-wild-ass-guess) is that we will be good to go for the August 1 date as long as Trump opens boarders to EU citizens in reciprocity. I think this was the hangup for China on this go-round.
 
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