☣ Coronavirus ☣

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MrHullMysterious said:
Just curious, but are you going to self isolate for 14 days after going clubbing or to an event in that you won't leave the house even for food shopping? If so I'd have less problem with it.
My mates mum and her family never left the house except once a week to go food shopping. Which is where she must have caught it and subsequently died from it.
Its already been proven many times you can have it, no symptoms and be fine but spread it to others who are not.
Thus quarantine after activities that could put you at a high risk of contracting it is required imho ?‍♂️
Edit: remember 40% of transmissions are before symptoms or with no symptoms at all...
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I was writing it as an example but 14 days of isolation after a music event or holiday doesn't sound so bad to me to be honest. I'd rather have 1 day of good life and then two weeks rest than months and months of not really living with every good and enjoyable thing cancelled...

Sometimes it surprises me that the tone of voice in this thread seems to be quite negative about everything, everyone seems to be okay with staying locked up, wait it out until there's a vaccin, how dare we even think about returning to normal including travel, nightlife and festivals etc...while I think it's completely normal and healthy to look into opportunities to start living again now that lockdowns actually are being lifted everywhere.

I am not planning on avoiding risks until there's a vaccin, cause that's a long way ahead IF it's even gonna happen. Adjusting my lifestyle somewhat to protect others....sure! But yeah I'm in the 30 percent of Mixmag's survey that says: once there are music events I'm there! And once I can fly to Ibiza I will. Am I taken a risk there? Perhaps...but the same risk applies for doing groceries or going to the gym again. I cannot evade the risks forever. All I can do is try to protect the vulnerable people around me and I will do that. If that means some form of isolation from time to time...could be.

When media outlets or governments say: We'll have to learn to live with this virus...this is my interpretation of it. Live with the virus means actually living with it and risking you'll get it.
 
Springal said:
No-one is 'caged indefinitely' - there is a big difference between where we are moving to at the moment and opening night clubs and festivals. Do you see?
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Just cut out the rest of what I said if it fits the narrative. My point being continually calling somebody selfish because you disagree with them is wrong. In fact I would suggest it's pretty selfless to want people's businesses to open back up and for others to start enjoying themselves again
 
BareBen91 said:
Just cut out the rest of what I said if it fits the narrative. My point being continually calling somebody selfish because you disagree with them is wrong. In fact I would suggest it's pretty selfless to want people's businesses to open back up and for others to start enjoying themselves again
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Haha true! I actually get paid every month...but I know a lot of people who dont at this moment and every day they have to remain closed is a day too long. For some branches (events, bars, gyms, restaurants, tourism, sex) the measures are now more deadly than the virus itself!
 
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ElrowLovers said:
I was writing it as an example but 14 days of isolation after a music event or holiday doesn't sound so bad to me to be honest. I'd rather have 1 day of good life and then two weeks rest than months and months of not really living with every good and enjoyable thing cancelled...

Sometimes it surprises me that the tone of voice in this thread seems to be quite negative about everything, everyone seems to be okay with staying locked up, wait it out until there's a vaccin, how dare we even think about returning to normal including travel, nightlife and festivals etc...while I think it's completely normal and healthy to look into opportunities to start living again now that lockdowns actually are being lifted everywhere.

I am not planning on avoiding risks until there's a vaccin, cause that's a long way ahead IF it's even gonna happen. Adjusting my lifestyle somewhat to protect others....sure! But yeah I'm in the 30 percent of Mixmag's survey that says: once there are music events I'm there! And once I can fly to Ibiza I will. Am I taken a risk there? Perhaps...but the same risk applies for doing groceries or going to the gym again. I cannot evade the risks forever. All I can do is try to protect the vulnerable people around me and I will do that. If that means some form of isolation from time to time...could be.

When media outlets or governments say: We'll have to learn to live with this virus...this is my interpretation of it. Live with the virus means actually living with it and risking you'll get it.
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Yeah that is fair enough, if people taking risks are up for mitigating the risk they then pose to others, then it's probably workable.

The only issue are for those who would then have a choice between their job (in a pub/club/bar etc) and their health.

USA/Brazil are probably the experiment people are going to watch and see what happens when you go back to "normal".
 
MrHullMysterious said:
Yeah that is fair enough, if people taking risks are up for mitigating the risk they then pose to others, then it's probably workable.

The only issue are for those who would then have a choice between their job (in a pub/club/bar etc) and their health.

USA/Brazil are probably the experiment people are going to watch and see what happens when you go back to "normal".
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I agree we can't go back to normal immediately and that it will take some time and adjustments. Perhaps my posts dont reflect that.
But I'm hopeful and positive there's a life to be lived in the 'in between' phase.
I don't think it's good to keep lingering in this 'avoid all risks' phase for too long :)
 
Johnny Vodka said:
Got a letter to say three residents have died in my dad's care home in the last week. People who work in care homes (or any workers who interact with older people) can't live in a bubble; as soon as you start society mingling again, the risk to vulnerable folk will increase.
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That's sad. And I can understand you will be worried about your dads health.
So I hope you dont get my questions wrong but...:

Did the care homes always sent out letters about who died? I'm curious because in care homes...the elderly are really vulnerable, the average life expectancy for people in care homes (in the Netherlands) is 3 to 9 months. So in the past I guess lots of them passed away because workers gave them the flu or a cold...there's always something that's the last push over the edge unfortunately. So the risk to the vulnerable was always there, since they received visitors (their loved ones) and nursing. The riks off course has increased with Covid since it's spreads rapidly.
I just feel bad for the elderly in care homes not being able to receive visits from their loved ones (luckily that is allowed again here from the 25th of may) but they do get nurses coming in and out....same risk right? Are you allowed to visit him?

Edit: I think lockdowns never helped the elderly and vulnerable, at least not in care homes...in the end they need visitation and help so there will always be interaction with others. We can't keep nurses isolated from other people and it's inhumane for the elderly to not see their loved ones.
 
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ElrowLovers said:
That's sad. And I can understand you will be worried about your dads health.
So I hope you dont get my questions wrong but...:

Did the care homes always sent out letters about who died? I'm curious because in care homes...the elderly are really vulnerable, the average life expectancy for people in care homes (in the Netherlands) is 3 to 9 months. So in the past I guess lots of them passed away because workers gave them the flu or a cold...there's always something that's the last push over the edge unfortunately. So the risk to the vulnerable was always there, since they received visitors (their loved ones) and nursing. The riks off course has increased with Covid since it's spreads rapidly.
I just feel bad for the elderly in care homes not being able to receive visits from their loved ones (luckily that is allowed again here from the 25th of may) but they do get nurses coming in and out....same risk right? Are you allowed to visit him?

Edit: I think lockdowns never helped the elderly and vulnerable, at least not in care homes...in the end they need visitation and help so there will always be interaction with others. We can't keep nurses isolated from other people and it's inhumane for the elderly to not see their loved ones.
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Can you source those numbers?

The rehabilitative services provided by Dutch nursing homes include physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech and activity therapy (six para- medics per 100 beds). Such intensive rehabilitative efforts result in approximately one in three residents (35%) being discharged home and a turnover rate of 75/100 (average length of stay almost 1.4 years).

 
So from Monday in England in the uk we can meet up with up to 6 people from different households outside, including gardens.

You can't go in the house except to access the garden. So guess peeps just have to piss in the bushes ?
 
Moha said:
Can you source those numbers?

The rehabilitative services provided by Dutch nursing homes include physical therapy, occupational therapy and speech and activity therapy (six para- medics per 100 beds). Such intensive rehabilitative efforts result in approximately one in three residents (35%) being discharged home and a turnover rate of 75/100 (average length of stay almost 1.4 years).

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I'll look it up. It was even quoted by one our ministers on national television. I think there's a difference in what you are calling nursing homes and what I'm talking about. The nursing homes I'm referring too ...no one gets discharged home.
 
MrHullMysterious said:
If you are outdoors but close to someone and talking for a min or two you have a higher chance of catching it than a few metres appart with someone coughing. (Assuming they are infected) can't find the research off hand at min. Also indoors is way worse if air conditioning on. Whole point is to spread the air about.

Looks like USA is going backwards with new case ?
www.nationalgeographic.com

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Where cases are growing and declining

The COVID-19 public health emergency will end this spring
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com
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USA is trending in the right direction. Deaths, hospitalization rates, and positive test % are all dropping. Even new cases are dropping. Any increases of new cases are because of an increase of testing. Some states have plateaued, but we haven’t seen any real spikes yet.
 
Neo95gt said:
USA is trending in the right direction. Deaths, hospitalization rates, and positive test % are all dropping. Even new cases are dropping. Any increases of new cases are because of an increase of testing. Some states have plateaued, but we haven’t seen any real spikes yet.
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That's interesting, looking at the graphs and stats for individual states some are on are more predictable curve down, but some look like hit a plateau or increasing. Hopefully this is just due to more testing.

This page probs easier to use and shows total new daily cases in an easier to see form (20k+ a day is a lot though, esp when you x10 to get real number of infections?‍♂️)

www.worldometers.info

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
 
MrHullMysterious said:
That's interesting, looking at the graphs and stats for individual states some are on are more predictable curve down, but some look like hit a plateau or increasing. Hopefully this is just due to more testing.

This page probs easier to use and shows total new daily cases in an easier to see form (20k+ a day is a lot though, esp when you x10 to get real number of infections?‍♂️)

www.worldometers.info

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
Click to expand...

Looking at stats for new cases is misleading since it heavily depends on how much testing is done. Death rates, hospitalization rates and positive test result rates are a much better indicator.
 
ElrowLovers said:
That's sad. And I can understand you will be worried about your dads health.
So I hope you dont get my questions wrong but...:

Did the care homes always sent out letters about who died? I'm curious because in care homes...the elderly are really vulnerable, the average life expectancy for people in care homes (in the Netherlands) is 3 to 9 months. So in the past I guess lots of them passed away because workers gave them the flu or a cold...there's always something that's the last push over the edge unfortunately. So the risk to the vulnerable was always there, since they received visitors (their loved ones) and nursing. The riks off course has increased with Covid since it's spreads rapidly.
I just feel bad for the elderly in care homes not being able to receive visits from their loved ones (luckily that is allowed again here from the 25th of may) but they do get nurses coming in and out....same risk right? Are you allowed to visit him?

Edit: I think lockdowns never helped the elderly and vulnerable, at least not in care homes...in the end they need visitation and help so there will always be interaction with others. We can't keep nurses isolated from other people and it's inhumane for the elderly to not see their loved ones.
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No, they don't generally send out letters when people die. Obviously, current circumstances are different. Three people dead in one week is hardly normal. Another home locally had 16 residents die due to the virus. There is still a risk with staff, but they are monitored and wear PPE. I'm not allowed to visit him, and I made the decision myself not to visit him a few days before the ban was announced. I agree with the ban (at least for the time being) - the consequences of the virus getting into a care home will likely be devastating.
 
ElrowLovers said:
I'll look it up. It was even quoted by one our ministers on national television. I think there's a difference in what you are calling nursing homes and what I'm talking about. The nursing homes I'm referring too ...no one gets discharged home.
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Mate, we've disagreed and found common ground but you cant just throw our statistics. No where in the world is average stay in a nursing home '3 to 9 months'. People lost significant parts of their lives without their loved ones, dont diminish it
 
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